[KARMA]

just rotate uvmaps:p

[Nico]

Originally posted by diamondgeezer
Well this is it, building stuff in TS prevents **** ups during conversion from other formats

Well, somehow, I managed to make 3 whole, available for download fleets starting from max files, and woomeister didn't have much pbs with conversion, go wonder

[Taristin]

Well, you're special...

Heh, not really. I can make pofs from 3ds too, no problem.

[Krackers87]

its not that i dont know how to use TS. The reason is because of all the stupid things it does.

Myu main reason that made me give up on t was when i tried to make new lines for new faces, it kept automaticaly making faces that i didnt want i to.

Then id have to delete that face and strt over again to just get the same results.



If i can figure out a way around this i may continue to use TS since all my experience in it would be a shame to waste.

[Taristin]

Ehh, TS does that sometimes... You have to try it in perspective view, and then move it in side view...

If I knew how to use it, I'd probably try Max5... As of now it's taking up space on my HDD...

[diamondgeezer]

It seems to do that quite randomly. It's not really a problem. Just make sure you save regularly incase it makes a dodgy face and decides to crash as a result...

[Krackers87]

But how do i get it to stop?

I cant make the faces i need if it keeps doing that and theres no way that Freespace will like that anyways.

[diamondgeezer]

Like  I said, it just does it randomly. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. If it does, do things a different way instead.

[KARMA]

this is a common problem, but it doesn't happen completely randomly
I used TS5 and TS6, so my experience is limited to those.

First of all, TS6 works far better than TS5 in those situations, wich I suppose to be already better than older versions, I remember I built sometimes ago in TS5 a pretty complex mesh w/o using booleans at all (but spending a lot of time), just joining manually all the primitives:/, and I found some tricks: this was a big prob for me too, but now it doesn't happen that often to me.
these are the "rules" I can tell you to "limit" the prob:
[list=1]

• manually add faces as less as possible:p I'm not kidding, often it is better to work with already present faces; so, if I want for example to manually join two separated objects with some new edges, it is better to create new faces with the slice tool in both of the objects, sweep those faces so the 2 extrusions intersect, boolean unify the objects, clean and finally work to obtain the desired shape.

Adding small primitives with booleans, and then manually modify/weld vertices to obtain the desired shape is another strategy that could come handy sometimes, althought I don't suggest it always

• be careful when adding new edges, always work in perspective view or you risk to have an extremity in a different position than the desired one; also check the two extremities: you can have a double vert  sometimes(the new edge is not really joined at one extremity, althought it look so) wich will screw completely the face generating process; check for double verts if you are having problems
• try to work from a bigger level to a smaller, never the inverse: when possible it is better to create first a big non flat face over your hole (or whatever else), then slice this face to create the new edges and finally give it the desired shape, I never use it but I suppose the polydraw tool in addition with the new edges tool should be useful for this purpose

This is the best strategy to (not completely) avoid this kind of problems: expecially in ts 5 try to use the slice tool whenever possible instead of the add new edges tool (as said you need a face to slice...)

• when creating faces, if you can't create a general face first, try to work with triangles
• if you are creating a group new faces, complete all the new edges before exiting from point edit mode: when there are problems truespace try to fix em automatically when exiting from point-edit mode (when you press the arrow button), and it will work better if you created a "complete" and "logical" shape; possible results: nothing will happen; TS will crash (save a lot); the problem will be solved; some of the new edges will be deleted and there still will be problems (but it could be easyer to fix em).  
• try to understand how the face generating process work, when a new face will be generated, why, what (sucking )ehuristics it use....if you can understand this, it will be easyer to avoid ambiguous situations that increase the possible problems
• use (as last resource) the try to fix bad geo tool.... it is intended specifically for those problems, since they are very common
• exercise as much patience as you can:)
[/list=1]

[KARMA]

I forgot two things:
1 in ts6 (and, IIRC, in ts5 too), if you are surrounding an existing face, like when you join manually 2 cubes (you connect two faces, one for each cube), this face will be deleted: all the edges of the cubes faces will be edges of the faces you are going to create. But if you have internal edges that will not be used by the new faces, they still will be there and you will have to manually remove them
2 the above situation will more likely give you problems: TS doesn't know what it has to do with the faces that are going to be occluded, and may give problems in the faces that you are adding. A good strategy is to delete first all the  edges and faces that will be occluded. This will reduce the ambiguity and it will be more easyer for the program to decide how to create the new faces
3 there are some plugins that are useful to connect faces with new edges. I remember a couple of them, and expecially one for TS5 that connect automatically two faces with the same number of verts. It didn't work always as you could expect, but it was often useful

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Nico
Karajorma: I've seen awesome pics done in MS paint.  Don't laugh, it's true. Does that mean Paint is a great prog? No. It means some people have too much time on their hand. Take any of your super beautiful renders from TS, it will take 1/4 the time to do the same in max, LW, maya, or whatever pro prog you want.
The best workman will do his job even with a dull tool, but how long will it take? Think about it, and ask yourself why isn't truespace used for making videogames and movie effects

Let me put it this way. Everything you've just said about the TS-max relationship could be said about the max-Maya relationship. How often do you see max being used to make Hollywood movies? Does that mean that max is rubbish? Does this mean that anyone trying to make animation in max should give up and learn Maya because that's what the big boys use?
Your arguements for doing things in less time hold just as true there and Maya can do them better than max can as well.

Besides Krackers wasn't complaining about the time it took to do something. He was complaining he couldn't do it at all and that is almost certainly due to a lack in his abilities because there are plenty of good models in the community that were made using TS.

The simple fact is that I'm sick and tired of hearing people bashing TS. If it weren't for TS I probably wouldn't have started modelling at all and I think lots of people feel the same way. Having a program that is intrinsically 4 times faster is useless if you can't do anything with it.

[Flipside]

Well, I've had enough problems in models in the past to get to know a little of the interface, it's not as bad as it first seems, the model info panel contains everything you need to know, Truview is great for moving models around, better than 3DS Max or Lightwave, though their own methods are still pretty usable
I will always find TS too stop/start for my tastes, but I put this down to my unfamiliarity with the program

Flipside

[Bobboau]

I've used only TS for all my models,
are my models crap?
thank you come again.

[Krackers87]

hey i use TS for my models, it pisses me off from time to time, less the more i use it.

But what bothers me is it has really great features but very aparent bugs.

And i fixed it by myself. Thank you very much....

And thx Karma ill remember that.

[silverwolf]

errm i like maya so i wouldn't know about TS

[Unknown Target]

Krackers, I thought you used MS3D.

Anyway, yes, TS is bizzare, but you should learn it anyway. It'll help when using other proggies.

[Gloriano]

Originally posted by Bobboau
I've used only TS for all my models,
are my models crap?
thank you come again.

hey, you are pro when using TS in modeling because your model's just rock:)

[KARMA]

Originally posted by Krackers87
hey i use TS for my models, it pisses me off from time to time, less the more i use it.

But what bothers me is it has really great features but very aparent bugs.

And i fixed it by myself. Thank you very much....

And thx Karma ill remember that.

you are right, some of the tools seem powerful, but sometimes they also seem not reliable, to say the less.
You may receive the impression that using some specific tools it gives you random errors/bugs.
You wouldn't be far from true but, and trust me on this, I noticed that often it isn't ONLY the tools that are unreliable, it is the way we use those tools that is "wrong".
The adding new faces process is a good example of what I'm saying: it may sound very obvious the way it should work, just add new edges, maybe use polydraw on those new edges, and you expect to have the faces exactly where you want them.
Well, the problem is that in adding new faces (and it is the most tricky process of all truespace in my opinion...) the prog has to use some ehuristics to decide HOW to add them.
Something similar can be said sometimes for other tools that doesn't seem to work properly.
Very often the problems lyes in the data to be used in those ehuristics that you give to the program (in this case, the way you prepare the mesh and how you add new edges), since it is interpreted in the wrong way.
Give to the system the right data, and it will return right results.
The problem is that it isn't always obvious or clearly expressed what is the "right data":)
and some other times the right data doesn't exist at all:p

[Sticks]

TS = Blah. Sorry, I just never took to it's wierd layout. And it is more difficult do complex shapes in.

Lightwave all the way. Splines make my day.

[Unknown Target]

Milkshape is the way to go!

Vertex by vertex good results are built, lol