[karajorma]

I remember Flipside having exactly the same error message. IIRC the problem was to do with having subsystems which added up to more than 100% of the hull.
Have a look in this thread for more details.

[Tolwyn]

that was partially a problem, yes, but it doesn't keep the game from crashing

update: does somebody happen to have a tested htl model?

[KARMA]

but bob, I can't think of something worse than the SW corvette you saw sometimes ago, she got around 10k polys into 50 heavily intersecting submodels...

btw, I have this kind of problems with the fenris I'm building, I consider she as a stress test for fso, but it seem the test is failing. Working with tons of submodels can reduce the pcount of around 30% (wich is a lot), but it doesn't seem that fso like this way of working. The model is loaded fine into the tech room, but in the missions after few seconds the game crash. It could be the 7200 polylimit x subobject reported by (iirc) flipside, but personally I think the problem is the amount of submodels (althought being the same subobject)...not much a problem, since I have a "solid" version too, but I'll have to polyreduce really a lot before releasing the model:/
anyway I'll try to investigate more to isolate the cause of the prob

[Tolwyn]

So will I. I have a few theories, although most of them are quite weird We'll see.

[karajorma]

I have a model with about 1500 polys (untriangulated) in a single subobject that works fine.

Omniscapers Star Trek models sound like they are working though so it might be worth trying them.

[Flipside]

Hmmmm.... Well, we both get exactly the same error from debug and they both crash after a few minutes. I've manually checked the tbl file and couldn't find the guilty ship, so I'm at a dead end

[Tolwyn]

Originally posted by karajorma
I have a model with about 1500 polys (untriangulated) in a single subobject that works fine.

Omniscapers Star Trek models sound like they are working though so it might be worth trying them.

yeah, but where do I get 'em?

[Odyssey]

Here.

[gevatter Lars]

I think searching for errors in our mod could be much easier if we know what things could crash HTL.
So could anyone of the SCP team post a list of know problems that make HTL crash.
If we don't find any of these error in the mod, then we found something new.

[Tolwyn]

is it possible that DirectX 9.0 is the reason for this crash?

[KARMA]

ok, here are some more infos:
I have a simple mission with a fighter and 3 of these testing models

model1:
7300 triangles, triangulized model, 150 polygroups (!!!), 4 subobjects, some very minor intersections, one simple 256x256 texture tiled over all the mesh.

the model is loaded fine into techroom, but in the mission after few seconds the game crash and returns to desktop, with no error message.

It is not a table problem (the model is not pofedite, and I tested it replacing the fenris and the myrmiddon, crashing in both cases)

I made a mistake and converted the model without textures. In game you see no models (there is only radar signature and the distance shown in the hud is screwed).
That's strange, I remember that in fs2 you can see untextured models as semitransparent, but I suppose It is HTL related.
BTW, althought nothing was shown, the game crashes as before (it took just little more time to crash).

model2:
it is the same model, but I deleted some submodels.
around 5000 triangles, 75 polymodels, I removed MOST but not all of the intersecting submodels, all those with the worse intersections anyway.

it worked flawlessy.

Now, I have 4 hypotesis
1- the crash was caused by the number of submodels
2-the crash was caused by intersections
3-the crash was caused by something wrong with the specific submodels I deleted
4-the crash was caused by pcount

Considering that I got in the past a 10k poly ship with the worst intersections you can imagine working flawlessy in game, I tend to avoid the second and the fourth hypotesis.
I'll try to restore those submodels, deleting some others: if the game will crash the problem is something related to those submodels, either the intersections or something else, if the game will not crash, it will definitively be something related to the number of submodels you can have, or the number of polys into submodels, or something like that.

[Flipside]

Well, I've had 1300 poly models with no intersections and which work in Vanilla FS2 still crash the SCP version I think it appears to be something to do with either Bitmaps (The thing often seems crash as a large explosion is taking place) Or I thought it might be Hires or textures, but the fact you used 256 x 256 PCX means it can't be that.

[KARMA]

test3
this is pretty interesting

5500 triangles, 104 submodels. I restored all the submodels I erased before, and deleted many others.

the model works flawlessy
therefore the problem is not related to specific submodels, nor to intersections.
A good hypotesis at this point is that fso can't work with more than a certain amount of submodels (note: submodels!=subobjects) or a certain amount of polys in submodels. I'll try to find the exact number of submodels or of polys than cause the crash, and then make some further tests to verify this

[Tolwyn]

But I have made a little tiny step forward. I used my existing mesh, and deleted every subobject (with lights and axis), but kept the turret-podests, after converting there is only one main-object left.

This model can be at least be viewed in the techroom, using the newest SCP-build. But loading a mission containing it, instantly crashes (there is not even the load-screen appearing).

Using the models with turrets etc, already crashes the techroom.

I could provide the model... if you are interested in testing with it.

[Tolwyn]

I think I have got it: I took a look at each vessel that crashes the game: Banshee, Ranger, Concordia, Vesuvius, Dragon, etc. They all use a large number of texture maps, at least a dozen of them. My guess is that htl is not capable of handling a lot of small maps. I remember, that Bob advised to keep the number of texture maps low and use large sized textures instead.

[KARMA]

iirc the limit was 18 or probably less, check the first pages of the stickyed thread in the modding forum "rejoice modellers.."

[Flipside]

I'm not sure it's texture numbers or size, my models tend to use a single 2048 x 2048 map (The limit is from the GCard, not SCP). I know it's not 32Bit cos this thing has been happening on and off since before the 32Bit version came out. I really do need to find out what is wrong with my Ships.tbl and see if I can get the debug version to run