Author Topic: US Soldier was tried for Cowardice?  (Read 2050 times)

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Offline IceFire

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US Soldier was tried for Cowardice?
War aint a pretty thing and having done quite a bit of reading on the subject its easy to see how someone could crack.  Even the most intense of training and the most pyschologically stable can crack under the pressure.  A good portion of human biology cannot take the sights of war and conflict....we've spent a long time fighting each other anyways but humans on a one to one level generally have a great level of compassion for one another when it comes down to the basics.

So someone who cracked under the pressure is a guy that needs to be sent the heck out of there and given a different job - volunteer or not.  Books from WWI talking about some of the toughest German and Allied soldiers of the war depicted times when they broke down and cried.  During WWII it was discovered that a great deal of the numbers of rifle misses were not due to inaccurate rifles or poor equipment but soliders actually could not bear to fire at their opponent.  

I understand the motivations for the military to proceed as they do but they still don't really understand shellshock and psychological stress as well as they should.
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Offline Woolie Wool

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US Soldier was tried for Cowardice?
Quote
Originally posted by Holy Imperial Gloriano


have you seen dead peoples usualy panic when they see dead
even soldiers if it's their first time when they see dead before they see more dead peoples war is full dead and soldiers who it's their dirst time in Conflict it's more harder than to those who have seen battles


That's the most incoherent post you've ever written. Your English is normally much better, but I can barely understand what you just wrote.
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Offline SKYNET-011

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US Soldier was tried for Cowardice?
I think he means it's natural to panic seeing a dead body.
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Offline Stryke 9

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US Soldier was tried for Cowardice?
Possible he was panicking at the very thought of it.

 

Offline Drew

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US Soldier was tried for Cowardice?
hell id be kinda disturbed if i saw somone sawed in half buy gunfire.

what the hell where they using on the iraqi soldier? like a minigun or sumthing?
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Offline Ghostavo

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US Soldier was tried for Cowardice?
Poor guy.

Scared half to death and then trialed with a possible death sentence because of it. Talk about bad luck.
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Offline Flipside

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US Soldier was tried for Cowardice?
Agreed, I worked for the Police for two years, saw people with their heads caved in with Hammers and worse, it's NOT a job for everyone, neither is a soldier, but the only time you find this out is when you are faced with it.

 

Offline 01010

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US Soldier was tried for Cowardice?
Quote
Originally posted by Stryke 9
Possible he was panicking at the very thought of it.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Offline Warlock

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US Soldier was tried for Cowardice?
Quote
Originally posted by Ghostavo
Poor guy.

Scared half to death and then trialed with a possible death sentence because of it. Talk about bad luck.


He wasn't tried of anything. Only charged with it,...then it was changed to a much lesser charge and he requested the Court Marshall over non-judicial means.

Yea it's hell to have happen to you, but at the same time it's no where near as bad as it could be,....could have seen his partner blown in half or worse.


Quote
Originally posted by Drew

hell id be kinda disturbed if i saw somone sawed in half buy gunfire.

what the hell where they using on the iraqi soldier? like a minigun or sumthing?


Browning M-2 .50 Machinegun could easily do that, with only one round impacting the body even.  It's war, ppl die in pretty horrible ways, and most of the time it's a bit of overkill since there's alot more anti-veichle weapons than anti-personel being used in a firefight.
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Offline Rictor

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US Soldier was tried for Cowardice?
No person should be punished for reacting that way to seeing a human being sawed in half by gunfire. Anyone who is not disturbed by that is either a die-hard veteran or a nutcase. As someone mentioned, its not exactly like the reaction is voluntary.

The fact that he had gone through basic training is irrelevant. Unless the Army has taken up some very strange training methods, you are never actually expossed to death in basic training, or in any other training for that matter. Learning how to fire a weapon and learning how to deal with the brutalitty of war are completely different things. Anyone can be trained to fire a gun. Not everyone can be trained to partake (or witness, whatever) in the destruction of human life without flinching. In fact, I very much doubt that training will help you in that regard. You can either handle it or you can't. No way to find out until it happens, and by then its too late. Sure, if you've been fighting in the Army for 20 years and have seen war, then you can probably deal with it, but its unreasonable to expect fresh recruits to be able to go through war without the occasional panic attack.

And anyway, its irrelevant. Obviously, at the time no one's life was depending on this guy. He wasn't providing covering-fire. His base wasn't under attack. He wasn't in a situation where his panic-attack would have made a difference. Therefore, its stupid to punish him without regards to the specific damage cause by his "cowardice", which was none.

 

Offline Sandwich

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US Soldier was tried for Cowardice?
Quote
Originally posted by Warlock
Browning M-2 .50 Machinegun could easily do that, with only one round impacting the body even.


You sure about that?

Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
Anyone who is not disturbed by that is either a die-hard veteran or a nutcase.


There'a a huge difference between being disturbed (implying a continuing ability to function) and having a panic attack.

I saw a guy killed a bit less than a year ago - armored truck flipped over, driver got tossed out and crushed. Happened right in front of our APC; I got there before the guy breathed his last. Now, it wasn't a particularly grisly sight - there (amazingly) wasn't any exterior damage visible to the eye, but the doctor afterwards said that his innards were completely mush.

Anyway, I didn't panic... I didn't even have time to feel much of a reaction beyond the urgency of the situation.

Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
The fact that he had gone through basic training is irrelevant. Unless the Army has taken up some very strange training methods, you are never actually expossed to death in basic training, or in any other training for that matter. Learning how to fire a weapon and learning how to deal with the brutalitty of war are completely different things. Anyone can be trained to fire a gun. Not everyone can be trained to partake (or witness, whatever) in the destruction of human life without flinching. In fact, I very much doubt that training will help you in that regard. You can either handle it or you can't. No way to find out until it happens, and by then its too late. Sure, if you've been fighting in the Army for 20 years and have seen war, then you can probably deal with it, but its unreasonable to expect fresh recruits to be able to go through war without the occasional panic attack.


This I agree with.
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Offline Beowulf

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US Soldier was tried for Cowardice?
Why is this a new low? Good he should be charged with dereliction of duty.

Thank you Warlock.


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Offline Warlock

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US Soldier was tried for Cowardice?
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich


You sure about that?


 



Only by what I was told by instructors and higher ups when I was active duty. Never actually tested the theory ;)  



Quote
Originally posted by Beowulf
Thank you Warlock.
 


eh?
« Last Edit: January 01, 2004, 05:43:37 pm by 81 »
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Offline Sandwich

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US Soldier was tried for Cowardice?
Quote
Originally posted by Warlock
Only by what I was told by instructors and higher ups when I was active duty. Never actually tested the theory ;)


Well yeah, duh. :p From what I remember, the .5cal has explosive tips, but whether it'd be enough to split a man's body in two, I don't know. Somehow I doubt it - there ain't all that much explosives you cn put in a half-inch diameter bullet tip.
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"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Shrike

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US Soldier was tried for Cowardice?
AFAIK the US .50s use SLAP rounds now, which don't have any explosive.
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Offline Warlock

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US Soldier was tried for Cowardice?
Actually,....I wasn't meaning explosive tips at all,...but shear force of the bullet.

Course it's (technicality here) against Regs to shoot personel with it directly unless it's your only remaining weapon. (Meaning aiming directly for the body),...but hitting the ground in front of them is meant to throw up enough harmful shrapnel to take most out of action....at least for the moment.

Love Military rules :rolleyes:
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