[Akalabeth Angel]

One thing which has struck me of late is how people seem to have interpreted subspace since that fateful mission against the Lucifer at the end of Freespace 1. After playing through Derelict, and those campaigns which have come afterwards or before it seems to me that they've simply gotten it wrong.

    Subspace, in its appearance seems to best resemble Lightspeed in Star Wars as we see on several occasions throughout the first three movies. The ability to "track" the Lucifer, to my way of thinking was just allied pilots putting themselves in relatively position near the Lucifer destroyer.

    Since then however, it seems to me that subspace has suddenly been interpreted as a big long tube. On one end we have Vasuda, on another we have Alpha Centauri. This is evidenced, I believe by silly escort missions of protecting freighters in subspace and so forth. Or in Derelict, how the node is "closed" and apparently scientific teams have travelled through the tube of subspace and parked in the centre to look at the Nyarlathotep.

    Instead of lightspeed like Star Wars, we have the Wormhole from DS9 or something to that effect. And if that was how subspace was seen in FS1, then why would the GTA or the PVN need subspace tracking at all? If the Lucifer is heading to Sol, just jump in the node and you'll be in the same tunnel. Go blast some shivans. But that's not how it was.

   I suppose one could hypothesize that all of the battles occuring in subspace in recent campaigns are because pirates are tracking the convoys, or what have you, but I don't think that was ever in the minds of authors. Rather it seems to me that it was hey, its shaped like a tunnel, lets all jump in the tunnel and have a rumble.


   Anyone agree with me on this? Or am I missing something???

[Knight Templar]

Originally posted by Akalabeth Angel
.....Go smack some head....

Before all else, you need to rephrase that.

[karajorma]

The general theory on subspace around here is that although subspace is just a big long tube there are an infinite number of them. Which one you enter depends on the exact frequency your ship was vibrating at when it entered subspace.

Had they picked the wrong one the Terran ships in FS1 would have found their tube empty cause the Lucifer would be in a different one.

[HellToupee]

im guessing its this when the ship enters subspace it creates its own tunnel, not by how the ships virbrating or what every just how the shubspace drive dose it, the ships tracking it can mimic this and enter its tunnel and take it out, i wouldnt think of nodes as pre existing tunnels but more weak points in subspace.

[pyro-manic]

The way I interpret it: Subspace is a whole other dimension (Like Hyperspace - and it's component Infraspace and Ultraspace - in Iain M Banks' books). Nodes are weakpoints where the boundaries between the normal 3/4 dimensions and Subspace are weakened, allowing ships to move between them. As for the tunnel thing, I think that's just the nature of subspace's actual appearance to human eyes. The Shivans, for example, might see subspace in an entirely different way.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by HellToupee
im guessing its this when the ship enters subspace it creates its own tunnel, not by how the ships virbrating or what every just how the shubspace drive dose it, the ships tracking it can mimic this and enter its tunnel and take it out, i wouldnt think of nodes as pre existing tunnels but more weak points in subspace.

Umm..

From the FS2 Techroom
In simple terms, subspace is an n-dimensional tunnel between one point in the universe and another. A vessel can travel through this tunnel in a matter of minutes, making a journey that might otherwise take decades or even centuries at light speed.

A jump drive causes a ship to vibrate in multiple dimensions until its modulations are in perfect synchronization with the subspace continuum. A vortex opens, creating an aperture from an infinitesimally small point in the cosmos, enabling the vessel to cross the subspace threshold.

I didn't pull the vibration bit out of my arse, it's canon
If you want to say the tunnels aren't pre-existing and are instead created by the jump drive I'm not going to argue with you. Doesn't matter to me whether they already exist or not since you only see them once you enter subspace anyway

[Goober5000]

karajorma, that needs even more rephrasing than Akalabeth Angel's.

[Stunaep]

As far as your supposed Derelict inconsistency, they'll just use subspace tracking to get to the Nyarlahotep, no?

Wait, I get it. Yep, that's a plot hole the size of Mt. Blanc.

Beh, Derelict wasn't this good a campaign anyway. Homesick is teh w0rd now.

[Akalabeth Angel]

As far as your supposed Derelict inconsistency, they'll just use subspace tracking to get to the Nyarlahotep, no?

   Thing is, I don't think you can stop in subspace. Even if subspace is a tunnel, the constant movement and graviation stuff of the actual subspace model is suggestive of movement. I don't think you can actually stop in subspace, or even turn around. Once you jump in, you're coming out the other side. What varies is how fast you get there and whether you decide to meet up with someone along the way.

[Eishtmo]

From the Freespace Reference Bible:

While travel into subspace is enabled via ship-borne devices (called “subspace engines”, “cores”, or “motivators”), it’s long been known that subspace itself is a naturally-occuring phenomena.  

Subspace, for the intents of this document, is an alternate physical plane of space where the normal limits of relativistic physics and travel don’t apply.  By entering subspace for a relatively brief period of time, a space vessel can emerge in a location in realspace several star systems away.  This technology has allowed the human race to spread across much of the known Galaxy.

There are essentially two modes of subspace travel, inter-system and intra-system.

Intra-system subspace travel is nearly instantaneous, and requires relatively little energy input to enable.  Most of the GTA’s advanced fighters are equipped with intra-system jump motivators, allowing them to travel at will within a given star system.  There is little or no restriction on the beginning and end points of such a subspace “hop,” except that they be in the same star system.  

Inter-system travel via subspace is another matter entirely.  The end points of inter-system subspace jumps are limited to the naturally-occuring focal points of subspace, also known as “nodes.”  These nodes were initially discovered by Prof. J. Whiteside (see McPherson’s Multipaedia  (2557 ed.), pp 1132-1140).  Only between two subspace nodes is the fabric of subspace strong enough to support inter-system travel.  The defense of the physical locations surrounding such nodes proved to be a central part of the 14-year Terran-Vasudan War.

In addition, such massive amounts of energy input are required to open an inter-system node, that only the largest fusion pile reactors in existence are able to sustain it.  As a result, inter-system subspace travel is almost exclusively made by the largest vessels in production.  This fact has made the GTA’s Orion-class destroyer/carriers a pivotal and crucial part to the GTA’s tactical forces during the T-V War.

Needless to say, the ability to deliver ships of war to nearly any pinpointed destination has forever revolutionized the concepts and long-standing tenants of space combat.

That coupled with FS2's description:

In simple terms, subspace is an n-dimensional tunnel between one point in the universe and another. A vessel can travel through this tunnel in a matter of minutes, making a journey that might otherwise take decades or even centuries at light speed.

A jump drive causes a ship to vibrate in multiple dimensions until its modulations are in perfect synchronization with the subspace continuum. A vortex opens, creating an aperture from an infinitesimally small point in the cosmos, enabling the vessel to cross the subspace threshold.

Two types of jumps are possible.

First, an intrasystem jump can occur between two points in a star system. Most small, space-faring vessels are equipped with motivators capable of these short jumps. The presence of an intense gravitational field is required, prohibiting travel beyond the boundaries of a star system.

Second, ships can jump from system to system via nodes. Until the Great War, only larger ships could generate sufficient power to use jump nodes. The development of jump drives for fighters and bombers in 2335 enabled the Alliance to destroy the SD Lucifer in subspace. Producing these small jump drives is prohibitively expensive, so they are restricted to missions that require pilots to travel between systems. The Head-Up Display indicates the location of jump nodes with a green sphere.

The vast majority of subspace nodes are extremely unstable, forming and dissipating in nanoseconds. Other nodes have a longer lifespan, existing for centuries or millennia before collapsing. The jump nodes sanctioned by the GTVA for interstellar travel are expected to remain stable for many years.

Is what subspace is.  Personally, I don't think many battles actually happen in subspace (despite user made campaigns) mostly because of the reason the Lucifer was destroyed in the first place:  Shields don't work.

As for tracking, I'm not exactly sure what that means.  I'm thinking that every craft that enters intersystem subspace follows a slightly different path.  Thus, to find a ship in subspace, you would have to know what to look for in subspace.  The Ancients figured it out, and passed the information along.  I don't know how that happened.

And I agree, I don't think you can actually 'stop' in subspace.  You're pulled along whether you like to or not.  But how long you spend in subspace is something we really don't know.

[Ace]

Originally posted by Eishtmo
From the Freespace Reference Bible:



That coupled with FS2's description:



Is what subspace is.  Personally, I don't think many battles actually happen in subspace (despite user made campaigns) mostly because of the reason the Lucifer was destroyed in the first place:  Shields don't work.

As for tracking, I'm not exactly sure what that means.  I'm thinking that every craft that enters intersystem subspace follows a slightly different path.  Thus, to find a ship in subspace, you would have to know what to look for in subspace.  The Ancients figured it out, and passed the information along.  I don't know how that happened.

And I agree, I don't think you can actually 'stop' in subspace.  You're pulled along whether you like to or not.  But how long you spend in subspace is something we really don't know.

Subspace tracking is as said in here earlier the ability to track the subspace drive signature (the subspace signature is the remnant of the multidimensional vibration a ship undergoes when initiating a jump) of another jump so that your subspace jump can enter the same subspace corridor.

A subspace corridor you could consider to be a tunnel of normal space within subspace, sustained by a subspace drive.

Shield technology does not operate since I have assumed since FS1 that they are in fact subspace based, discharing energy into subspace when impacted. You can't open a jump within subspace and so shields don't operate.

There is a general "current" through subspace that "pushes" objects forward and when a ship reaches the end of the corridor it reaches the other side. Using engines, etc. can increase or decrease your speed through the corridor but you will reach the other side.

From FS1 Delta Serpentis to Sol was a 15 minute jump. Most subspace jumps are probably between 10-45 minutes.

[Setekh]

Originally posted by Ace
Shield technology does not operate since I have assumed since FS1 that they are in fact subspace based, discharing energy into subspace when impacted. You can't open a jump within subspace and so shields don't operate.

Ahhh, that's an excellent explanation. You think way too much for your own good.

[Carl]

here one for ya: If subspace isn't really a tunnel as has been proposed, then couldn't a ship move off course and go to any other node they wanted? this doesn't seem to ever happen.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Carl
here one for ya: If subspace isn't really a tunnel as has been proposed, then couldn't a ship move off course and go to any other node they wanted? this doesn't seem to ever happen.

Maybe it's akin to burrowing - whilst it is possible to, the mechanics of actually finding an alternate node make it incredibly dangerous.

Of course, that would beg the question how the intended exit node is found and the tunnel formed..... maybe the gravitational conditions at entry or exit node form the channel (or the vector to the exit node), or possibly it was even created itself by an ancient race.

Possibly subspace itself is honeycombed by tunnels, as defined by stable node pairs... whilst movement in the subspace 'plane' is possible, it's nearly impossible to determine position.

Finally, another possiblity is that the gravitational conditions formed between 2 entry  /exit areas actually form the tunnel - forming a tunnel whilst preventing ships from being able to touch the edges.  Gravity may work completely differently in subspace.

[Blaise Russel]

Perhaps is like land and water.

Subspace exists in 'pools' around stars and other sources of gravity, and nodes, or 'channels', between these pools connect the systems. Pools are 'still', but channels have 'currents' that take you from one end to the other.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Blaise Russel
Perhaps is like land and water.

Subspace exists in 'pools' around stars and other sources of gravity, and nodes, or 'channels', between these pools connect the systems. Pools are 'still', but channels have 'currents' that take you from one end to the other.

Would fit in with intrasystem jumps.

[Akalabeth Angel]

One thing that also irks me about some of the subspace developments is the notion that the destruction of a ship within a node will destablize or collapse it. There is no evidence in either game, and evidence against it.

   In FS1 a node collapses because a super destroyer explodes within it. In FS2 two nodes are collapsed by the use of an exploding destroyer equipped with multiple meson bombs. Clearly, in order to collapse a node you need a massive release of energy. This massive release does not equal the destruction of a Typhon, or an AWACS or what have you that have been in several other campaigns. But starting with, probably Derelict or some campaign it seems that any destruction of any ship has the ability to cause severe or catastrophic damage to a node; which doesn't quite make add up.

(Btw, don't get the misunderstanding that because I've mentioned Derelict or other campaigns, that I am neccesarily saying they're bad campaigns. All I am saying is that they aren't quite up to cannon, as a campaign Derelict is very enjoyable. As are others such as Warzone, Homesick, Inferno, Sol:AH, LM, and so forth (just to mention some that are actually completed).)

[Flaser]

You asked for it - my theory:

SUBSPACE

We don't live in a 4 dimensional time space, we live in multidimensional one. Stephan Hawkings already mentioned this theory in the "Brief History of Time" - he used the orange aproximation.

When you look at an orange from distance you can pretty much say it's a sphere - however if you look close you can notice all the small bumbs and trenches on the surface.

The same stands for the other dimensions - they don't come into play unless events take place on a miniscule scale - quantum phisic scale.

Latest studies try to explain this even without addition of new "dimensions". Instead - as far as I could understand - they explained it as if space could "wrap around itself" creating small pockets of universe.

Of cource these wraps have an edge - that's where you can enter.

However it seems the laws of physics aply everywhere - so gravity, electromagnetic fields, weak and strong interaction can intervine.

Gravity is special since it practically wraps space if some of Einstein's laws are viewed in that fashion, so gravity can disturb these pockets, and create an opportunity to enter - thereby a node.

IMHO subspace is not homogene, it is fractured in most of the universe but around big masses with great gravitiy it is more solid than elsewhere - this is the reason intra system jumps are esier to make.

I wrote this theory some time ago and it started quite a while ago and I constantly try to improove it.

It is quite similar to Russel's idea.
Around a star subspace is a lot more coherent, so it's easy to travel. Actualy even planets make it more coherent - that's the reason you can ofter end up close to planets or asteroids.

When doing an intra-system jump you would be able to see the star you're orbiting and even some of the currents that planets cause.

It's only during an inter-system jump that you see the telltale tunnel - but that's only one of the infinite numbers of pathes.

Around a star there are so many subspace fields that they almost create a consistent subspace sphere - however there are disturbances in the field, so in a sense there could be another field right next to you - and you won't notice it.