[kasperl]

Originally posted by Holy Imperial Gloriano





odd

you nodd and say odd.

explain yourself.


and for once, try not to lie, and try to keep your english readable.

[Gloriano]

I not normaly agree with you about some things


but I edit that

[kasperl]

nice, you should really try to post more then one word or one smiley in a post, and keeping your **** consistent through editing is good to.

[Gloriano]

next time then

[Odyssey]

[color=cc9900]Oh good, another thread to file as containing lots of helpful people to inadvertantly prove just how blatantly wrong patriotism is.[/color]

[Beowulf]

Originally posted by kasperl
no-one is superior here. i consider every human life as equal. off course, when i have to choose between a member of my family, and someone i don;t know, the decision i hope to never have to make, i would choose my family, because i know them, because i place value in them. but if i had to choose between some drunken dickhead from Holland and some high prospect college kid from the States, or Iraq, or Russia, i would choose the college kid.

There. Thank you for proving my point. People can be superior to others. When I have to choose, I choose my family, I choose my country--the source of my freedom, the source of my protection, the source of my wellbeing. I love my country--as much as I may want to change it--and will do everything within my power to protect it. If that includes invading other countries or defying "world opinion", so be it. Saddam was a threat, not just to the US, but all freedom loving people. I didn't support the war to get WMDs or free the Kurds--I did so because I know this man's idol is Stalin (an admitted fact), and knew that he hated the west. Those who lend support such a filthy cruel regime as one to gas thousands of his own people, torture political prisoners, and kill more Muslims than any leader in the world, deserve to die.

Originally posted by kasperl
really, patriotism isn;t evil, it will just lead to evil if you don't stop and think often enough.

Really? Loving my country for the freedom, protection, and life that it provides can lead me to a life of evil? Doing what I can to protect what I love will lead me to a life of evil? No, patriotism will not lead to a life of evil, my own personal choice will lead to evil. Being a patriot is an act of love, not hatred.

Let me guess, a bayonet is inherently evil, right?


~Beowulf

[Odyssey]

[color=cc9900]When did love become automatically a Good Thing?

And anyway, since when was Saddam an active threat to the US? Since the US started handing out weapons like a charity?[/color]

[01010]

Wow another thread about Iraq. How interesting.

[Bobboau]

that doesn't prove that one person is superior to another, just that one person may be more important than another person to someone, to me all people have the same potential, but there choices in life make them more or less important or good (two seperate things)

[Gloriano]

every terrorit has something to with US

bin laden rebelion soldier or some boss in soviet union vs Afganistan guess who give weapons to rebels USA of course

So Americans have done more damage them selfs when they did give weapons to Bin Laden (now most hunted man in world

[Odyssey]

Originally posted by Holy Imperial Gloriano
every terrorit has something to with US

[color=cc9900]No.[/color]

[Bobboau]

well, many of them are trying to kill us,
so I would call that something to do with us

[Fineus]

But these are interesting times - especially since America decided to police the world. I hate to break it to you Beowulf, but not everyone wants the protection of America. The small time farmer in the middle of nowhere may not be affected - but those of us in the middle of it all have to put up with "what is best for us" - whatever our governments decide.

Sure I was born in the UK, so were my parents, and no doubt the British army would protect me and civilians from anyone who attempted to invade us - but I never never wanted my government to start telling other countries what to do. Who are we or America to chose the fate of others? That's not protecting us - thats essentially attacking others and changing things to what our societies hold as ideal. Just because I like cheese - I don't run around hurting all my friends untill they like cheese as well (analogy - incase you wondered).

[Beowulf]

Originally posted by Odyssey
[color=cc9900]When did love become automatically a Good Thing?

And anyway, since when was Saddam an active threat to the US? Since the US started handing out weapons like a charity?[/color]

When did love become a bad thing?

Wow. Another scholar of history! You obviously know nothing about the Iran-Iraq showdown.

Originally posted by Bobboau
that doesn't prove that one person is superior to another, just that one person may be more important than another person to someone, to me all people have the same potential, but there choices in life make them more or less important or good (two seperate things)

I agree with you to a point, Bobboau. However, people are born with different skills, abilities, etc. How they use those skills defines who is superior. Whoever creates, builds, and loves is the superior man. Whoever uses his skill for death, destruction, and looting, is evil. We must be objective about what is evil and what is not. A country like Iraq will always squander in its own rotten filth. But you see, this is not about countries, it is about people. Most Iraqis love freedom (new found) and love personal choice. People like Sadam and his sons are evil and inferior to leaders like Bush and Blair. I'm not saying either of these two are great (I have some serious issues with Bush, making me not want to vote for him) but they are better, among the best in the world.


~Wraith

[Bobboau]

yes but our innaction can have the same effect as action
[pointed at kal]

[Odyssey]

Originally posted by Bobboau
well, many of them are trying to kill us,
so I would call that something to do with us

[color=cc9900]Sure, the great majority have something against the US (does that say anything?), but not all of them.[/color]

[Beowulf]

Originally posted by Kalfireth
But these are interesting times - especially since America decided to police the world. I hate to break it to you Beowulf, but not everyone wants the protection of America. The small time farmer in the middle of nowhere may not be affected - but those of us in the middle of it all have to put up with "what is best for us" - whatever our governments decide.

Sure I was born in the UK, so were my parents, and no doubt the British army would protect me and civilians from anyone who attempted to invade us - but I never never wanted my government to start telling other countries what to do. Who are we or America to chose the fate of others? That's not protecting us - thats essentially attacking others and changing things to what our societies hold as ideal. Just because I like cheese - I don't run around hurting all my friends untill they like cheese as well (analogy - incase you wondered).

I don't think you understand. I don't care about protecting you. I only care about protecting me, my family, my country. If your country has the same goals as ours, then by all means, let us join forces and protect each other.

[Odyssey]

Originally posted by Beowulf
When did love become a bad thing?

[color=cc9900]Since Dracula started to love blood, I suppose.[/color]

[Zeronet]

Originally posted by Rictor


Great stuff.

Terrorists are defined as people who murder, in an organized fashion and on a large scale, civilians. The bombing of Iraq has killed well over 10,000 civilians. Now, tell me again, who are the terrorists?

Firstly, please provide a source for the numbers of civilian killed in the war, as i believe them to be grossly inflated. Secondly, terrorists are people who deliberately attack civilians with a political motive. At no point, did US Warplanes, deliberately seek to harm civilians, dont be such a idiotic hippy. There is no military advantage in attacking civilians, its a waste of money. The deliberate placement of military forces in schools and hospitals was done by Saddam

The fighters in Iraq right now, they are what is called a resistance movement. Perhaps you've heard of such a concept. They exist to drive out the American soldiers who are illegally occupying their country. This seems like a legitimate cause to me.

Well of course it seems legitimate to you, you don't really care about rebuilding Iraq, you just want vindication for your hippie views on the US. It doesn't really concern you, that these 'resistance' fighters, kill more of their own people than americans. I doubt it concerns you, they sabotage efforts to rebuild the country. I doubt it concerns you, they are the forces of a disposed dictator. They exist, to hamper efforts, to rebuild the country. Of course, your hippie bias will prevent you from seeing this, naturally great satan does not want to help iraq, great satan wishes to plunder the country and occupy it forever.

But let me guess, anyone who kills Americans, soldiers or not, is a terriorist? Right?

Nope, people who deliberately target civilian establishments and Iraq police forces are terrorists. People that attack US soldiers are merely enemy combatents to be killed, so that the war may conclude fully and Iraq restored to its pre-1960 level of wealth. War isn't a good thing by any stretch of the imagination, but sometimes, you just have to do it the hard way, for the greater good.


Thundfireth: Right on. However, I thought that Three Kings was the usual "brave Americans" movie. Real soldiers would never do that, never risk their lives for Iraqis. They would take the gold and gun everyone else down. The Americans were glorified, the Iraqis (well, those who weren't shown as helpless victims) weere demonized, as usual.

I STRONGLY urge you to go rent a movie called No Man's Land. It shows just how ****ed up war really is, without skewing the perception to any one side.

I replied in red.

[Gloriano]

don't think you understand. I don't care about protecting you. I only care about protecting me, my family, my country. If your country has the same goals as ours, then by all means, let us join forces and protect each other.

everyone should protect everyone because we all live in blue planet we call home.