Except that there is a later version still out for retail, I'd agree with that Carl. The thing is, Discreet is a bit fiddly with their products, so getting ahold of it period is pretty dubious. They took it off the market so they wouldn't lose sales on Max 5 (as that's when I'm guessing it dissapeared) since Max has not changed in its basic operation since 3 and most people don't need or want some of the "selling" gizmos of Max 5. I could of course be completely off there, but I think to assume that just because the software isn't distributed legally any more means it's copyrights aren't still actively maintained is probably pushing it a bit. That said, I'll go with Bob's answer anyway.