Author Topic: North korea gas chambers  (Read 5174 times)

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Offline mikhael

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Why, Woolie? Because I don't believe in unilateral invasions? Because I think that what we did in Iraq--no matter how much it needed to be done--was illegal and done under false pretenses?

I agree, something needs to be done, but not the way we did Iraq.
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Offline Woolie Wool

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Do you think Kim Jong Il CARES if you levy economic sanctions on North Korea? He doesn't give a flying FUCK about his people. He'll just take what little food and money there is for himself and his cronies. To bring liberty to North Korea, we'll have to kick him out by force.

Personally, I consider the lives and well-being of millions more important than the lives and well-being of a few thousand and the feelings of a bunch of piss-ant nations in Europe.
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Offline Gloriano

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There must be other way if USA attacks it could bad to USA soldiers attack must be last Choice
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Offline aldo_14

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Quote
Originally posted by Woolie Wool
Do you think Kim Jong Il CARES if you levy economic sanctions on North Korea? He doesn't give a flying FUCK about his people. He'll just take what little food and money there is for himself and his cronies. To bring liberty to North Korea, we'll have to kick him out by force.

Personally, I consider the lives and well-being of millions more important than the lives and well-being of a few thousand and the feelings of a bunch of piss-ant nations in Europe.


  You can't play nuclear brinksmanship under the pretext of saving lives.

 And frankly, the US has still prove itself capable of bringing liberty to a nation - Iraq has no government and could topple into civil war very easily, and in Afghanistan the elected leadership has virtually no power outside Kabul.

 

Offline Woolie Wool

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Nuclear brinkmanship? The first strikes against NK would probably be to destroy its WMDs and nuclear facilities. We'd probably ship our best Patriot missiles to Japan and South Korea to stop incoming nukes. If a nuke hits, NK's Communist government will have hell to pay.

There really is no choice because Kim Jong Il cares about nothing but power. His people can go to hell in his mind as long as he still has control.

The war will happen eventually. Either we strike first or they nail one of our allies in the Pacific and drag us into the war.

Also, Iraq has a functioning provisional government and elections will be held this year. So there.
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Offline Zarax

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yes, elections will be run and Saddam will be back under the promise of being a good boy in the future...
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Offline aldo_14

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Quote
Originally posted by Woolie Wool
Nuclear brinkmanship? The first strikes against NK would probably be to destroy its WMDs and nuclear facilities. We'd probably ship our best Patriot missiles to Japan and South Korea to stop incoming nukes. If a nuke hits, NK's Communist government will have hell to pay.

There really is no choice because Kim Jong Il cares about nothing but power. His people can go to hell in his mind as long as he still has control.

The war will happen eventually. Either we strike first or they nail one of our allies in the Pacific and drag us into the war.

Also, Iraq has a functioning provisional government and elections will be held this year. So there.


Iraq has a provisional government which is composed of exiles with virtually no grass roots support.  The US has had to resort to asking the Us for help in establishing the feasibility of elections this year, but the UN doubts that it will be possible by the summer date.  The situation in Iraq is highly unstable - there's an ongoing guerilla war, and we've already seen mass protests aimed at the provisional government.

You're making a key assumption that the US knows where the nukes are.  As Iraq shows, US intelligence can be extremely misleading when it comes to the location of WMD.  

Not to mention that there is probably no way to tell whether a water tanker carries water or biological agents - and thus what the effect of blowing up that tanker is.

And just a single miss can result in the deaths of thousands, most likely civillians...

In fact, the Iraq war is a perfect example - several missiles succeeded in landing near allied positions and even, IIRC, one in Kuwait city.  And NK will undoubtedly have both better missiles and more of them.

A war will solve nothing... all it will do is further destroy international relations, and kill a lot of people.  To assume that you can simply send in troops, kill a few hundred (thousand) people and walk out leaving a happy, stable populace is sheer idiocy.  

What you will have is a monumental death toll, the possbility of Chinese involvement, the potential for deployment of nuclear and biological weapons, thousands of destitute refugees swamping SK and collapsing the economy there, the need for a massive aid effort, long term military occupation to preserve civil order (of many more troops than Iraq), the likely collapse of international relations between China and the US (even if China remained neutral),  the likelihood of WMD material being 'leaked' by the fleeing NK leadership, etc.

 

Offline Dr.Zer0

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Quote
Originally posted by redmenace

1. they get in a war they can't win with the US
 


Yeah, we have more nukes then them
Woot for nuclear war!

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Offline Rampage

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You kids just stop ranting and hear from someone who knew people who experieced China's Proletariat Cultural Revolution in the 1960s.

North Korea today is really reminiscent of China's 1960s Cultural Revolution, which was a cultural and political revolution.  You should read what the government did to its citizens.  Mao Zhe Dong didn't give a crap.  Kim Il Cheng could care less.

Plus, what they're doing is completely supported by China.  The Chinese, despite UN sanctions, gives supplies and weapons technology to the North Koreans.  Mao Zhe Dong during the Korean War said, "As the lips rot [Korea], the teeth [China] is exposed and vulnerable."  So I don't think that China is going to allow North Korea to fall as a military power in the area.  China, being a Communist nation, could not be menacing because of its status in the UN and the WTO, but NK can.  And the Chinese are still using the regime to achieve their own purposes.  China supplies NK with nuclear and chemical technology; NK refines the uranium and cyanide for creating those weapons.

And guess where the Chinese got all those tech white papers?  Yep!  They got them from Wild Bill himself!  I say, as a staunch Republican, crush the Chinese, North Koreans, and the Democrats (politically) in one fell swoop.

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Offline karajorma

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Quote
Originally posted by Woolie Wool
Nuclear brinkmanship? The first strikes against NK would probably be to destroy its WMDs and nuclear facilities. We'd probably ship our best Patriot missiles to Japan and South Korea to stop incoming nukes. If a nuke hits, NK's Communist government will have hell to pay.


You're a real idiot if you believe any of this would work.

1) Nuclear Strikes against North Korea to free its enslaved population. What kind of ****ing idiot would suggest that. If you're going in to save the people of the country from their tyranical leader you can't start chucking nukes at the country or you're far worse than the person you're complaining about.

2) The patriot missile is ****. That much is obvious. If it could do what you claimed it can why would Bush and Clinton have risked alienating everyone with that whole missile defence shield thing they were working on a few years back.
 Don't even get me started on the whole patriot vs scud thing.

3) Do you really think that China would stand by and let the US invade and take control of a country on its borders and do nothing?

Quote
Originally posted by Rampage
And guess where the Chinese got all those tech white papers?  Yep!  They got them from Wild Bill himself!  I say, as a staunch Republican, crush the Chinese, North Koreans, and the Democrats (politically) in one fell swoop.


What are you? A cartoon character or something? Please tell me you aren't insane enough to be advocating a war with China.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2004, 06:05:53 pm by 340 »
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The only justification for a war is for self-defence. If there were WMDs in Iraq that could threaten us (which, in hindsight, there probably weren't) then the war in that country was justified. Not a single soldier should die for the absurd cause of 'regime change'.

The same is true for NK. mikhael is absolutely right in saying we can and should do nothing if it puts the lives of our own people at risk. If soldiers are going to die they should at least die in defense of their own country.

 

Offline vyper

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HOw many times do I have to post this:

[q] originally posted by me
Governments exist to protect the peoples and interests of the peoples of thier nation[/q]
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Offline phreak

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which has been the case from day one and i dont see it changing any time soon.
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And int eh "best Interests" of the American people (as well as our Korean Brothers) a single mercenary sharpshooter should be hired to take out old kim jong(?)... No troops needed.

   I am so sick and tired of the WMD card being played.. Who the hell cares.. Intervention for other reasons is justified and I doubt china would really do anything (much like a toppled anthill will eventually restore itself into calmness) after the disturbance is done...

   I say this cause Korea is ONE tyrant. Not a collective like China. I actually have hope for China while nothing but pity for Korea...

   In my military opinion, take the bastard out, quick and quiet. Then get a McDonalds in the ASAP... Winning the hearts and minds (and paychecks)...

   As for the "million man army", I wouldn't be boasting about that (look what happened to saddam). As oppressed as the Koreans are if any troops ACTUALLY came to korea, after 40-50 years of neutral zone mentality, they'd probably ****e themselves cause they would know they were about to get Iraq'ed!!!   :lol:

  Just one guy's opinion... and I didn't even vote for bush!
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Offline Woolie Wool

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Quote
Originally posted by Zarax
yes, elections will be run and Saddam will be back under the promise of being a good boy in the future...


Not after what the provisional government does to him and his party. He won the 2002 Iraqi elections by a 99% margin because you couldn't vote for anyone else.:p

Sodamn Insane has run out of second chances.
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Offline StratComm

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I thought it was taken from an electorate consisting of only himself.  Whatever, I don't see him coming back to any leadership positions anytime soon, especially with a sizable portion of Iraqis pushing for his execution.
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Offline Knight Templar

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Call me old fashioned, but I still want more proof for there to be a war. I see an article, and a lot of "eyewitnesses", but given the evidence we've had on certain issues in recent history, I'm a bit skeptical either way.
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Offline Woolie Wool

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Quote
Originally posted by Dr.Zer0


Yeah, we have more nukes then them
Woot for nuclear war!

:rolleyes:


Nukes are pretty much never used for actual warfare (and if Kim Jong Il pulls one out, we'll smother all of the military and government assets and infrastructure in his rathole nation with smart bombs--with CONVENTIONAL explosives, mind you). Diplomacy involves around a lot of posturing and chest-beating: you intimidate your opponent into submission, and you fight only if the other guy doesn't back off. Nukes are basically a political penis: "mine's bigger than yours, so **** off".
16:46   Quanto   ****, a mosquito somehow managed to bite the side of my palm
16:46   Quanto   it itches like hell
16:46   Woolie   !8ball does Quanto have malaria
16:46   BotenAnna   Woolie: The outlook is good.
16:47   Quanto   D:

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Offline Mr. Vega

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There's no way the Senate will support this unless NK launches a nuke.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2004, 09:48:02 pm by 490 »
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Offline IceFire

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I see it along the lines that North Korea should have always been considered the primary threat and dealt with on a international stage instead of playing games over there, tossing in a few B-1B's in range of North Korea to "show strength" and then going to war in Iraq with a thin veil of justification.

But now the US Military is tied up heavily in Iraq...the US Military may pride itself on efficiency of technology but it seems pretty clear from the media reports (all over the place) that the military is stretched thin as it is.

Still...conflict may be around the corner.
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