[ChronoReverse]

It's very strange how in the main campaigns of FS2 and FS1, there are very few instances where the subspace shortjump isn't used tactically.

I'd imagine that the capability to teleport relatively short distances would be used as often as possible, especially since sensor technology is even more short-ranged.

First, let's look at the limitations of the shortjump.

From FS1, we know that shortjumps are only possible within a gravity well, such as that of a planet or a star.  Without a subspace node, it isn't possible to cross the distances between stars.  Even the "close" Alpha Centauri, at only 4 lightyears, cannot be reached without using a node (i.e. the gravity well btween Sol and the Alpha Centauri star system isn't great enough to support shortjumping.

I think it is reasonable to assume that the maximum distance of a shortjump is anywhere with a gravity well capable of holding a reasonable size planet.

In a system such as Sol, the last planet that fits this is Neptune.  Even if you consider Pluto a true planet, it's orbit isn't stable.

A larger system would support a greater jump volume.

The time it takes for light to reach pluto from the sun is a little over five hours.  Therefore the distance a subspace shortjump is capable of is at most about 10 lighthours in the Sol system.


Another question is how short of a shortjump can be made?  Why don't we ever see a really short shortjump to save time cruising?

An easy answer would be that it take far too much energy to use such short jumps.  But shouldn't a large expenditure of energy be _sometimes_ justified for a tactical advantage?


For example, when Bosch was running for a node, why didn't he engage a shortjump to get closer faster?  Same with every other "run to the node" scenario.



Perhaps it's not possible to engage a shortjump to or near a node.  Perhaps the properties of a node that allows for longjumps interfere with a shortjump.

But that doesn't make sense either.  In the first SOC loop, corvettes and fighters are obviousls making a shortjump right beside the node.  You also make a shortjump out from beside the node.  So it seems that shortjumps are indeed possible near a node.


It may be that a really short shortjump (i.e. within visual distances) simply aren't possible accurately.  While it seems to be possible to get a normal shortjump within 1000M (when we jumped in 5000M away from the Iceni, this was construed as unusual), it may not be possible to do a short jump _of_ 1000M.  This seems plausible, but it still leaves a question....


...why don't capital ships shortjump to get away?

[Liberator]

It's impractical to jump a 2000 m long ship 1000 m.

That said, I suspect that the actual reason is power consumption.  To generate a stable wormhole requires enormous amounts of energy, enough that the weapons would likely have to taken off-line to free up the generator capacity.  It probably take a long time to configure jump coordinates and align the field coils in the drive for such a short jump.

[SuperCoolAl]

gameplay purposes probably... but seriously

1. Inferno has the Nemesis 'nanojumping' tactically
2. Subspace engines probably have to recharge/take a lot of power
3. The exact calculations for precise subspace jumping must take ages to calculate

[ChronoReverse]

Yes, I suspect that's true.  But it still doesn't explain the lack of emergency shortjump getaways (to distances such as a light-hour).  You wouldn't need to be precise with that kind of jump, you'd just want to move anywhere that's "away from here"

[diamondgeezer]

This one's as bad as that awful destroyer thread

[ryuune75]

Originally posted by SuperCoolAl
1. Inferno has the Nemesis 'nanojumping' tactically

and it is damn cool!

[ChronoReverse]

@diamondgeezer

You know what, if you don't like it, don't participate.  There's no one forcing you to continue reading after you don't like it.

[SuperCoolAl]

the attacking ships could follow the ship jumping away- making it an unnessesary waste of power

[ChronoReverse]

You mean as opposed to being destroyed immediately, thus dying, but saving power while dying?

There's always a chance that they won't immediately go after you, giving you enough time to move somewhere else.

[diamondgeezer]

Originally posted by ChronoReverse
You know what, if you don't like it, don't participate.  There's no one forcing you to continue reading after you don't like it.

Ah, fair point of course. Just that, you know, we've had both these discussion plenty of times before, was my point. But fair enough, I'll leave you to it. Have fun

[ChronoReverse]

Yeah, but it's usually discussing what subspace is.  I'm wondering why they don't execute shortjumps more often.  Even getting away for a short time is better than not getting away at all.

I actually haven't got to the AWACS part.

Doesn't the presence of the AWACS confirm that the sensors in FS2 are in fact all active and not passive (however that makes sense at all, I don't know).

After all, a large transmitter of energy of any sort would be detected by the enemy far before you get a signal back.  Hence in the nebula missions with AWACS, if passive sensors were available, the SHIVANS would get advanced warning (heh heh).

[Eishtmo]

Originally posted by ChronoReverse
when we jumped in 5000M away from the Iceni, this was construed as unusual)

That was an intellegence snafu, not a technological one.  They expected the Iceni to arrive long after they did, and they were wrong.

[ChronoReverse]

I mean that since intelligence was wrong, they jumped in far from the Iceni.  This also indicates that the technology normally (given correct coordinates) is capable of jumping very close to a target.  That is, it's accurate.

[Goober5000]

Possibly it's increasingly difficult to jump to a greater and greater precision.  So when a ship has a short distance to cover, it's better off traversing it at sublight speed than risk being innacurate.

Don't forget that in mission 3 Command deliberately let the Iceni escape.  So the coordinates may not have mattered too much.

[Rga_Noris]

I feel it has something to do with energy conservation, and a little bit of time constraints.

Think about in FS2, whenever command says something like "The GVD Psamtik has made the jump to where you are! It should arrive shortly!" Well, wait 10 seconds and boom, there it is.

Given the speed of travel while in subspace, 10 seconds must mean that the Psamtik is, while still in the same system, a great deal away. So now your talking about jumping 4 klicks? That takes what, .0000001 nanoseconds? Now I understand that not every bit of the FS Universe goes along with reality, but I highly doubt there is an engine out there that can power up and then completely power down within .0000001 nanoseconds in order to make said 4 klick jump.

It's just not possible to make an engine that can power up and then shut off that quickly. NOW, the Psamtik could take an alternate route. Say, jump 3000 klicks one direction, out of the field of engagment, then set the computer or whatever to turn directly around and jump 3004 klicks, just past the field of engagment and into the jump node.

--Rga

[Goober5000]

That's the other thing - the Psamtik arrived 9000m off-course, ostensibly because the Knossos interfered with the jump.

[Setekh]

Pretty well thought-out, Rga. I would also add raw, immediate energy requirements to that list of reasons why it's not usually practical - not only must the drive be powered up, but a large amount of energy must be stored up in capacitors to allow the jump hole to be opened. That's why ships can never jump away quickly after they've arrived from subspace (a la the Bastion in the FS1 mission where an HOL Aten tries to ram it). The stated reason is that they have to reconfigure their navigation computer, IIRC, but naturally that would not take that long - lock in coordinates, correct the ship's vectors, you're good to go. No, it must be related to some time-critical process that needs to be completed before rejumping - like recharging their subspace drive's batteries.

[Akalabeth Angel]

1. Inferno has the Nemesis 'nanojumping' tactically
2. Subspace engines probably have to recharge/take a lot of power
3. The exact calculations for precise subspace jumping must take ages to calculate


   The Nemesis Nanojump, while a cool idea was ultimately kind of silly in its implementation I think. In the final battle of chapter one, the Nemesis nano jumps and the player has to destroy the beam weapons facing the allied vessel. After they're destroyed, the allies announce that "we will surely win now, because the nemesis doesnt have any guns facing us" well my question is, why doesn't the Nemesis nano-jump its other weapons to bear and blow the enemy away? In that regard, I thought it was silly. But the idea itself is kind of interesting.

[Eishtmo]

Originally posted by ChronoReverse
I mean that since intelligence was wrong, they jumped in far from the Iceni.  This also indicates that the technology normally (given correct coordinates) is capable of jumping very close to a target.  That is, it's accurate.

No it doesn't.  They expected the Iceni to arrive *after* they did, giving the pilots plenty of time to move in and engage.  The intel snafu put them in well after the Iceni had arrived and made it's move toward the node.  Thus there was no way they could catch up.

[SadisticSid]

Originally posted by Akalabeth Angel
1. Inferno has the Nemesis 'nanojumping' tactically
2. Subspace engines probably have to recharge/take a lot of power
3. The exact calculations for precise subspace jumping must take ages to calculate


   The Nemesis Nanojump, while a cool idea was ultimately kind of silly in its implementation I think. In the final battle of chapter one, the Nemesis nano jumps and the player has to destroy the beam weapons facing the allied vessel. After they're destroyed, the allies announce that "we will surely win now, because the nemesis doesnt have any guns facing us" well my question is, why doesn't the Nemesis nano-jump its other weapons to bear and blow the enemy away? In that regard, I thought it was silly. But the idea itself is kind of interesting.

Probably because the Nemesis required recharging time for its advanced subspace drive, or had used up most of its remaining power reserves after the nanojump for extended continuous fire from its super-heavy cannons at the Independence (it does fire them with greater frequency than the tables would normally allow).