[dragon1]

Hello All!
This fan project looks very cool. I have been a fan of Wing Commander since 1990 and have always tried to keep pace with new developments in the series. I was quite saddened to hear about Origin.

Just a quick question, I have always enjoyed the capital ships in the Wing Commander universe, will there be any major Cap ships fights?

The Freespace 2 engine had an awesome beam weapon and flak cannon system. Will this be utilized in the Wing Commander mod?

I always immagined that the large blue array mounted in the forecastle of Tallahassee-class Cruiser (or the red one mounted on the underside of the Fralthi II) could be a beam cannon, but due to the lack of programming technology in WC III or IV meant that these couldn't be utilized. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Mark G. Benton Jr.

[psych]

There will be capship battles.

As far as FS2 beam weapons and flaks, there will not be any. This mod is set during the WC3 times, and flak cannons have already been retired in 2668.

Capital ships will use heavy Anti-Matter Guns (some warships will mount tachyon cannons in place of these), laser beams (if you are not careful, they can really F-up your fighter), and torpedoes.

As for that thing on the Confed cruiser, it is going to be the torpedo launcher. And for the Fralthi II, we are going by the WCP version of it, which in place of that red thing provides a hangar bay to launch fighters from.

[Nico]

Should use a beam for the Behemoth, at least.

[gevatter Lars]

The Behemoth and the Confederation class Dreadnought will have a beam cannon, but no one else.
Ships from WC 1+2 will have flak cannons, if they are used in their timeline, but not in the WC 3 timeline where our momentary main campain takes place.

[Lynx]

I'm just waiting for the moment where someone posts something like "WHy does Wc not hve bEam cannons? THey r teh cOolness!!111111"

[Nico]

Coz besides apparences, there's not many tards at HLP. Or they post only in the general forum, at least

[Kazan]

laser cannons should be beam cannons - as it is a _laser_ and therefore travels at the spead of light -- anything that has a "laser globule" is inaccurate and breaking the laws of physics

[dragon1]

Very Cool!
Thanks for the response.

Will there be Capital Ship or Skipper missiles? One of my favorite WC4 missions was when a Confed Frigate and Destroyer attacked a Border Worlds convoy with CSMs and you had to intercept them. You even got a cool [WARNING CAPMISS DETECTED] message on the HUD.

Also, I was wondering about phase shields. Notice how in WC2 and WCP capital ships were phase shielded and in WC3 and WC4 (with the exception of the TCS Vesuvius and Ella Superbase) they weren't. I had always attributed that to the old age of the WC3/4 capital ships (they typically escorted old carriers like the Victory CV40 and Lexington CV44). For example, the design of the Tallahassee-class Cruiser was no where near the sophistication of the Waterloo-class Cruiser. Any thoughts on the service dates of these ships?

I know its just a game, but its a damn good game!
Thanks for all your time and effort.

[Lynx]

There'll be CSM's, I dunno about Skipper missiles, since cloaking isn't completed yet, but they could be implemented via scripting.

About the phase shields: In the WC universe, there's a constant race between shields and weapon technology; in WC2, shield tech was more advanced than weapon tech, and a few years later in WC3, weapons were developed enough to damage shields. Two decades later in WCP shield tech was more advanced than wepons again, and so on.

In WC3, only the Victory and the Caernavon class frigates were really old, while ships like Talahasse class were rather new.

[Tolwyn]

Tallahassee cruisers were commissioned after battle of Earth and were Fleet's most powerful battle cruisers. Caernaven's on the other hand were as common as dirt, old but still serviceable vessels.

And, in the game you may actually be able to penetrate the shields with your guns… but it is not very realistic. Only a heavy fighter with powerful armament like the Thunderbolt has enough punch to actually weaken and even breach the shielding. It is said that Thunderbolt’s front weaponry was able to kill small capital ships.

Remember: The bigger the ship the more energy generator systems it contains, and from the energy systems they get more power for phase shielding. The only thing that limits the size of the ship is the area that the jump engine generators can encompass. That argues against that fighter-sizes craft will ever be able to take out a battlewagon. They just do not carry enough punch, while a fifty thousand ton battleship can generate enough energy to power its shields and have enough left over so that its guns could kill a thousands fighters without getting even a scratch. Sure, a couple of hundreds of them hitting one single point might breach the shielding, but the heavy anti space craft guns will tear them to shreds.

The only way to break shield is to hammer it so damn hard that it soaks off all the energy from the generators. And hammering means big ships with damn big guns which means capital ships, not pop gun fighters.

[gevatter Lars]

Well there is another way to get around the shield...Torpedos!
The Kilrathi developed the first torpedos that can penetrate shields and hit the hull directly.

[dragon1]

I never really got too much into the Wing Commander novels, but in WC4, the Vesuvius-class Carriers appeared to be armed with 12+ dual mounted anti-matter guns. The much later Midway-class Carriers were armed with 25 or so laser turrets and some Air-Intercept missile launchers. Furthermore, playing WCP, I remember the Midway as being really hard to defend and really kind of weak. Why would a carrier such as the Midway be so down-scaled in capabilities compared to a Confederation or Vesuvius-class ship? Any thoughts?

Also in WC3, Tolwyn made a distinction between "keel mounts" and "laser turrets" (or the Behemoth's lack of). What are keel mounts in the WC universe? I know on Navy ships, sonar systems are mounted to the keel of the vessel, but what would that have to do with a spaceship?

[Tolwyn]

Originally posted by gevatter Lars
Well there is another way to get around the shield...Torpedos!
The Kilrathi developed the first torpedos that can penetrate shields and hit the hull directly.

exactly... the counter however is to simply increase the frequency of polarity shift to trick the warhead into thinking it has penetrated the shield, so that it blows before it is all the way through.

[Lynx]

Originally posted by dragon1
...Why would a carrier such as the Midway be so down-scaled in capabilities compared to a Confederation or Vesuvius-class ship? Any thoughts?

Vesuvius class carriers are insanely expensive; that's why only few of them have been produced. Midway class carriers are far more costeffective and easier to maintain. In WCP, they were rather hard to defend because they weren't escorted by a battlegroup. Normally, the carrier would be guarded by destroyers, cruisers, frigates and so on, but the Midway was just on her maiden voyage when the Nephilim invasion started - no one expected something to happen, it was peace time after all.

Also in WC3, Tolwyn made a distinction between "keel mounts" and "laser turrets" (or the Behemoth's lack of). What are keel mounts in the WC universe? I know on Navy ships, sonar systems are mounted to the keel of the vessel, but what would that have to do with a spaceship? [/B]

Keel mount just means that something is mounted on the keel. Like the Confederation dreadnought has the Phase Transit cannon on the keel(btw I don't think it's going to be a beam weapon; in WC2 it fires a bolt, no doubt), others have turrets or missile launchers there.

[Tolwyn]

Originally posted by Lynx


Vesuvius class carriers are insanely expensive; that's why only few of them have been produced. Midway class carriers are far more costeffective and easier to maintain. In WCP, they were rather hard to defend because they weren't escorted by a battlegroup. Normally, the carrier would be guarded by destroyers, cruisers, frigates and so on, but the Midway was just on her maiden voyage when the Nephilim invasion started - no one expected something to happen, it was peace time after all.

It is not just that. The Vesuvius-class carriers are also a controversial political subject. The supervisor of the design was afterall the disturbed, demented, disgraced, and now deceased Admiral Tolwyn. Even after all the efforts the Confederation Military did to clear its name after the scandal, some activists and other misguided fools state that the Vesuvius-class should be retired in the name of political correctness.

Originally posted by Lynx


Keel mount just means that something is mounted on the keel. Like the Confederation dreadnought has the Phase Transit cannon on the keel(btw I don't think it's going to be a beam weapon; in WC2 it fires a bolt, no doubt), others have turrets or missile launchers there.

I would rather call it technical evolution. I am pretty sure that Behemoth would fire an energy bolt back in 1992

[Nico]

Mmh, but the Midway is supposed to be able to stand on it's own, w/o a battlegroup support ( remember the chat at the begining of the campaign, just before Casey starts flaming Blair which is just behind him ).

[Tolwyn]

a carrier is never supposed to be able to defend itself alone. Vesuvius is another story.

Remember WC4 novel? Blair was able to wound Lady Lex because it pressed the attack on Rebel fleet without its escorts.

A fleet carrier is a too valuable ressource to waste.

[Lynx]

Originally posted by Tolwyn

I would rather call it technical evolution. I am pretty sure that Behemoth would fire an energy bolt back in 1992

And in 1994, too.
I'm sure the realspace engine wasn't able to handle real beam weopns, too. And the Behemoth was firing a beam weapon just in the cutscenes. The point is that the Concordia fired the PTC as a bolt even in the cutscenes, which aren't restricted by the limits of the engine, so...it's a safe thing to assume that the game designers meant the PTC to be a bolt wepon from the beginning.


@Nico:

Actually, the Midway was meant to be able to defend itself better, the fiction tells us that it is armed with some heavy ion cannons along with the standard lasers( a heavy ion cannon does penetrate 6.0 cm armor compared to the mere 3.8 cm of a standard turreted laser in 2681), but it was left out due to gameplay reasons. But still, carriers are never meant to engage enemy ships themselves, let alone without escorts. Their main offensive weapons are their fighters and bombers.

[Nico]

Hey, that's what they say ingame, complain to origin ( oups, too late ), not me.

[IceFire]

Originally posted by Nico
Mmh, but the Midway is supposed to be able to stand on it's own, w/o a battlegroup support ( remember the chat at the begining of the campaign, just before Casey starts flaming Blair which is just behind him ).

I think the distinction was that the Midway was able to stand on its own without a full battlegroup.  A pair of Murphy destroyers would likely have made things much easier (the ones with lasers, a capital ship missile launcher, and the anti fighter missile launchers).