[kasperl]

Someone mentioned Basic?

if you mean QB, stay the hell away from it. it's somewhat nice for a first language to learn, really simple and it takes very few lines and even less thinking to make something, but without very consiously not taking the quick&dirty route your entire program becomes one big puddle of hack&slash. i mean it. i made a program, 1100 lines, with no subs or fucntions. just a mountain of GOTO's

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Lonestar

Most viruses are built for MS machines, hence why *nix is more secure.

And? All it takes is brains to prevent a virus from getting on the machine in the first place. My personal website ran on an NT4 box for nearly five years and never got one single virus... which leads me to my next response:

Also, you could have a monkey run a *nix machine without problems, yet you need a bachelors degree to run IIS and be MS certified to ensure complete safety.

I'm neither a monkey, nor do I have a bachelors degree. I can run both systems securely. Um... you're not doing very well here.

As far as im concerned *nix kicks MS butt in security and features any day. I guess if your an MS pro tho, it can be as safe as *nix but why bother? *nix is faster, more reliable and can handle way more clients then MS.

That really does depond on how you configure and build the systems.

Dont get me wrong, both platforms are good enough to do their thing, and they are both secure enough to not be screwed with, but its my experience Windows servers get hacked up and crash way more then *nix. Only problem with the *nix machines is support and that is something that there is more of nowadays.

The main edge that *nix machines have over Windows machines, for the average user, is cost. For a hardcore power user, a *nix machine makes more over all sense. You dont' really get decent support for either (in my experiences dealing with SuSE, Redhat, and Microsoft).

Go with PHP and a *nix machine, otherwise you will just frustrate yourself.

Go with whatever you're comfortable with, on whatever platform you're comfortable with, and don't listen to zealots who feel the need to denigrate platforms that they don't choose to use.

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Kazan
For all x, PHP > x

( i need te stinking upsidedown A for logical "For All" and the backwards E for logical "For Some"!!!!)

There Exists an X such that PHP > x.

However, Perl beats PHP for text processing, Python beats it for simplicity, speed of implementation, design and completeness, C beats it for speed, ASM beats it for size...

I'm sure you get the idea.

[Kazan]

even when linux is more popular the virus infection potential will still be very low

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Kazan
even when linux is more popular the virus infection potential will still be very low

True that. Secure design goes a long way to keeping Linux safe from viruses.

[mikhael]

Originally posted by Lonestar

Also, you could have a monkey run a *nix machine without problems, yet you need a bachelors degree to run IIS and be MS certified to ensure complete safety.

Kaz just reminded me of something. Do you know, Lonestar, how easy it is to own an out-of-the-box RedHat system that someone's just attached to the internet?

Unfortunately a lot of those systems ARE installed by the monkeys you mentioned and an awful lot of them have been owned by automated r00tkits.

[Kazan]

most out of the box RHE machines are fairely insecure

IIRC they've gotten better with fedora

[an0n]

Originally posted by Lonestar
Most viruses are built for MS machines, hence why *nix is more secure.

What. The. ****?!

You've got that so completely wrong it's not even funny.

Most viruses are 'built' for MS machines because they're less secure.

MS is an easy target because they've got ****ty security. It's a 'blood in the water' scenario. There's no blood around Nix so the sharks ignore it. Microsoft, however, dumps blood faster than a haemophiliac with a severed juggular.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by an0n
What. The. ****?!

You've got that so completely wrong it's not even funny.

Most viruses are 'built' for MS machines because they're less secure.

MS is an easy target because they've got ****ty security. It's a 'blood in the water' scenario. There's no blood around Nix so the sharks ignore it. Microsoft, however, dumps blood faster than a haemophiliac with a severed juggular.

I fail to see how my statement is wrong, based on yours.

Its obvious many dont buy entire boxes, and many just buy the packages. With *nix machines rent a box for 150 a month, and you set it up yourself, secure it yourself, etc....

Learning it is also easier then learning MS crap.

Im surprised at the support for MS here. Its a known fact Viruses flock to MS machines not *nix. Its a known fact *nix machines perform quicker and handle more users.

Yes, i agree each system has security holes and problems, and learning curves, but at this rate *nix machines whoop MS's ass hands down. I cant see how anyone would want to try and argue against *nix machines.

Im not saying MS is pure crap, it has its uses and its good. But its just doesnt stand up to the *nix platform in ways of Web Development. PHP and *nix are just much more easier, secure and flexible.

Now you ask how i know this? I am 50% partner with http://www.ugcarray.com server hosting company. We use both OS's and have tried many things with them over the years, and the fact remains the *nix platform outperforms each and every time in the webserver department. Compared to the several MS security issues we have encountered only one security issue with the *nix platforms.
We are always looking for the best solutions, always tweaking and ensuring speed and reliability. In the ways of time management and expenditures, *nix platforms require plenty of management as does the MS platforms, however with MS's software it tends to crash , or cause problems for the user for many stupid small reasons which you cannot tweak enough to fix.

We can run a *nix platform for a month, and nothing ever needs a reboot nor does it suffer any performance losses unless we decide to update or tweak it, which sometimes cause a problem and requires quite a bit of research.
All in all *nix platforms rock, they are a solid stable structure that is easy and free to learn about mostly, whereas with MS you gots to worry about lots or yous in troubles.

Now for you MS fans, i worked with MS exclusively for a long time and i was where you were too. Until i actually really worked with the *nix platform.

I dont want to get a huge debate going, ive seen these before. I say make your choice based on what you think is best. Many will fight tooth and nail for their choices. Personally i think and will back 100% that the *nix platform and PHP programming language are the ways to go. If not only to support the cause, but to say to MS you cant have your cake and eat it too. MS is good at what it does, no doubt. However i would rather support a more flexible, and user made language rather then take onto MS's constant security problems.

[an0n]

What you said was that the reason Nix machines are more secure is because virus writers target Microsoft and by extension that the security of Nix systems was based almost entirely on the fact that people ignore them in favour of attacking Microsoft.

That's why yer statement is amazingly wrong.

Wether you meant it like that is another matter. I just call 'em as I see 'em.

[mikhael]

ITs not so much support for Microsoft, Lonestar, as calling an incorrect assertion wrong. If something smells like crap, it probably is crap. Your assertion is wrong. Its based on a dumb prejudice.

I don't like Microsoft OSes for serious hosting any more than the next guy, but its not because they're insecure (they are, out of the box), but because they take more effort to make secure and keep secure.

If you want to argue THAT, I'm with you 100%.

[vyper]

So what book would be best for learnin PHP?

[mikhael]

Book? Hell no. http://www.php.net/!