[Bobboau]

and I guess your right, in most authoritarian states your home is nothing specal, you are nothing specal, you have to do as your told becase big brother knows best. you know I'll take the ****ing 2.5 out of a million  incresed chance that I'll die from lung cancer 20 years earlier if it means I don't have to wory about the ****ing thought police storming my house for unhealthy activities.

[Kazan]

in _ANY_ state there is no difference between private and public property when it comes to things that stay aerosol for extended periods of time - because of physics

I do need to watch that stupid WMV - i'd probably laugh my ass off at how _STUPID_ they are and how off base their numbers are

evidence showing ETS is dangerous is undeniable just based off the chemical composition, not to mention the actual studies of how much damage it causes

[TopAce]

Originally posted by Kazan
TopAce: all the leading medical association in the world would like to inform you that your full of it
...

?

[Bobboau]

while your at it watch this one, on creationism (they get ****ing raped)
this one, on Alternative Medicine(saveing that one for my crazy aunt)
and this one, on global warming/environmentalism
hell watch'em all

[Sandwich]

SMok34s Al23 Goi|\|6 7o |-|311!!!111123

I don't smoke, detest SHS, but have to bear it in the army and some cafe/retaurants.

[Kazan]

*chuckles with devious insight*

so you [almost] all agree that smoking should be banned  outside of a persons own home

now what about if they have children.  should it not be child abuse to expose your children to something known to cause a wide variety of disorders, especially in children

[Bobboau]

and you still haven't watched it
it's only 15 minutes

[Kazan]

bobboau: because i doesn't matter, because refuting two studies out of ten thousand means jack

[Bobboau]

well I just think that personal freedom is more important than public health,
50 years ago some people though cercomsision was improveing publick health, they had studdies and statistics and all kinds of stuf, course it was all bull.

so you want to talk about childeren eh. how about abortion? there killing fetuses that undeniably could survive (things like aborting a week before the due date, extreemly rare but it happens, with good reason). these 'childeren' are being killed, flat out, the mortality rate umung aborted childeren is 100% and yet, I think you'll agree with me that the woman's rights to chose weather or not the carry the child superceeds the fetus' right to live, even though many people would tell you otherwise. hell the abortions are dangurus to the women too, there endangering there lives without knowing it, we must put a stop to that!

and it's not that it refutes two of the biggest studies on the subject of second hand smoke, it's that those studdies actualy showed the opposite of what they were claiming to, that the health threat from SHS/ETS is statisticly negligable, it's no worse for you that freaking UV radiation. now were not talking about first hand, suck'n-on-a-cig, smoke, that has been proven to give you (something like) a 50% chance of dieing from lung cancer, bad odds, but second hand smoke has not been proven to be anywere near as bad, look into how they calculate there numbers.

I found that thing _after_ comeing to these conclusion BTW, they just summed it up all nicely for me,
and at the least you should watch some of them, there great, espealy the creationism, they show a guy trying to disprove evolution by poining to the Grand Canyon.

[Kazan]

circomcission? they still practice that - i was violated by that -- don't use bad science as an example against good science


abortion is a false analogy to ETS exposure - due to the fact that until the child is born it is part of it's mothers body -- that's false analogy number 2

those studies were piss poor and aren't used as evidence.  Mainline smoke (ie that which is inhaled byt the smoker through the filter) is often less dangerous than non-mainline (that which comes off the end) because of the properties of tyhe filter.  It not going "near as bad" as being the smoker itself doesn't change the fact that it's a violation of your rights to be forced to inhale second hand smoke (and I do indeed mean forced, there is no other term for it because of the fact that it's an aerosol that stays suspended for EXTREMELY long periods of time)


you tried using two false analogies, and then an argument from faulty facts - i expect more you from bob

[Bobboau]

ok, so your telling me that inhaileing a full pure lung full of smoke is less dangerous that the secondary smoke?

right...

[Kazan]

_per_ _volume_ bobboau - it's still more dangerous for the smoker, but per volume the smoke that comes off the end is more toxic than that which goes through the filter - the smoker still gets a lot more volume


is the filter mangling c-i-r-c-u-m-c-i-s-s-i-o-n circumcision

[Bobboau]

no I just can't spell to save my life

anyway, your unwilling to budge, and I don't realy give a damn what you beleve so I don't care, I'm not a smoker, so this realy isn't that big of a deal to me, other than the fact that it violates personal frredom.

I don't think you understud the analagy I was trying to draw, it wasn't that ether of those two situations were valid, but that there examples of people forceing there beleifes on to others for what they call the greater publick health, I could very easy used some other bull like gays spread deseise, or tatoos are unhealthy, my point is that it's just a bunch of politicks.

[Kazan]

you're free to exercise your personal freedom so far as it doesn't violate someone elses - smoking violates someone elses

i saw the analogy you were trying to pull bobboau - it still faills to be a valid analogy, because ETS has a preponderance of scientific evidence saying that it's a public health threat

[Whitelight]

I smoke, have been for 20 some odd years now, and I really wish I didn`t, but cigarettes are very additive.. My wife smokes to, but none of our children do, thank god...

(edit) If we go out to eat, we request a smoking area... If they don`t have a smoking area we simply don`t smoke, untill we leave anyway...

[Fineus]

I think this has gone on long enough for everyone to have their say