[Gregster2k]

The fonts being screwed up in FS_open...for some reason they only work 100% if i override nvidia antialiasing for all programs in the control panel, AND set the FS2 Launcher one too.

vidcard: gf4 ti4200

AA works if i set AA to 4x in Control panel and 4_SAMPLES in FS2 Launcher.

What really is odd (AND DRIVES ME NUTS) is that everytime i run FS2_Open, or the game ends, or SOMETHING...the stupid thing goes back to NO_SAMPLES...(Wtf?!)

EDIT: Oops. I need to be slapped repeatedly. The reason it keeps going back to NO SAMPLES is because I'm changing the screen resolution in the Launcher and it changes the anti-aliasing dropdown to be NO_SAMPLES everytime the resolution is switched to something else...(Damn, thats annoying)

ANYWAY, as I said, font problems with GeForce Anti-Aliasing are GONE SO LONG AS I keep the font problem checkbox checked, and I keep 2_SAMPLES or 4_SAMPLES selected in the Launcher's AA configuration. But I need AA selected manually in the display properties or nothing is anti-aliased.

I select AA manually with my NVidia display properties, because for some reason, AA doesn't seem to work well with the launcher alone + Nvidia AA being in "Application Controlled" mode in Display Properties. So i set the AA in DispProp to like 4x THEN set to 4_sample in Launcher.

[ChronoReverse]

AA is realyl borked sometimes.  I have to enable it in the control panel and the launcher for it to work.  It doesn't matter what I set the launcher to, but it has to be set to something.

And -pcx32 doesn't work with AA either =/

I also have a GF4 (ti4200).

[[BoA]_Scoob]

ahh, it may have been that i was delusional then... i used to play with 2xQ AA in the control panel and none in the launcher.  I thought AA was on the whole time and running pretty fast!  Obviously i was wrong...

[ChronoReverse]

Eh?  Didn't you notice that the jaggies were still there?

And what's 2xQ AA?  I thought Quincunx was only available for 4x.

[Gregster2k]

you all might wanna read my edited post above...

and...um...
The context button help in NVidia properties lists the following modes:

- Off (duhhhhh)
- 2x
- 2xQ (Quincunx) ("offers quality of 4x with less performance drain"...Bah...4x looks WAY better than 2xQ...i think, 2xQ smoothes EVERYTHING including 2D text and 4x doesn't...)
- 4x
- 4xG ("4x, 9-tap (Gaussian) mode")
- 4xS (Direct3D only)
- 6xS (Direct3D only)
- 8x (only 4x for OpenGL)
- 16x
There is NO mention of a 4x "Quincunx" mode...unless one of the G or S ones is really Quincunx in disguise or something.

The ones offered by my GeForce4 Ti4200 64MB are...
- Off
- 2x
- 2xQ
- 4x
- 4xS (4x is plenty for me...S is just overkill...)



Too bad 3dfx went under...they had the best anti-aliasing on the face of the planet. Better than this, even. From what I can tell, Nvidia learned NOTHING from any of the assets they purchased from 3dfx. GF4 can NOT compare with the power of my old 3dfx Voodoo5 5500's FSAA. Alas, the V5 has no Hardware T&L unit.

[Taristin]

Odd. My GF2 doesn't have any information on AA. Maybe I'll try FSOpen with it, and see how well it looks/runs.

[ChronoReverse]

That's because the Voodoo5 didn't really use FSAA in the normal sense.

Moreover, its technology isn't very compatible with modern pixel and vertex shaders.



Who knows, maybe the NV40 would implement something from the 3DFX crew.

[Gregster2k]

how DARE you say it was not real AA!
just kidding.

Lol, if I'm not mistaken, the V5 had merely barebones support for shaders in the first place.

Regarding Raa'Torh's comment about AA: AA works miracles, if you got the spare FPS; and works well especially for the Orion, the Sathanas, and just about any spiky model out there. I highly recommend you leave VSync on if you have AA on though. AA is one small reason why I think oversmoothing a custom model with more and more polygons is just plain stupid.

[Taristin]

Well, I tried it, on 2_samples (which is all the launcher will allow me) and it seemed to make everything worse. Jagged edges on the Ulysses, and horrible framerates. But that may be because I have a PCI GF2 MX 32Mb, 128 MB ram, and a Duron 600.

I should really be pushing my MoBo to it's limits, it is an A7N8X-E Deluxe...

Edit: Also, there's a first time for everything, and you are the first to call me 'Tor'h'.   Styxx won't let me drop that part. Bugger.

[StratComm]

Raa, you're going to have to settle the fact that you are running the bare minimum card that FSO can still run on.  AA and some of the more GPU intensive processes are beyond your card's grasp if you want to keep the game playable.  That said, I am in the same boat as you and so have a distinct interest in seeing whatever optimizations are needed to get the GeForce2 supported correctly again.  And forget the AA.

[Taristin]

Oh, I already have forgotten it. The game looks great without it. I really, really, really want to upgrade, but I have to think of where is most imprtant to put my cash;

Fix my Car (Was in an accident)
Upgrade PC (Slow, but chugs along)

I wanted to buy a new processor, and that Sapphire Radeon 9600XT 256Mb.  I may still. But I have to check my priorities.

BTW; do you know anything about Sapphire brand cards?

[Gregster2k]

Heh. Even though I read these forums very regularly I don't pick up on details like that...um...Ra.

RE. your woes with antialiasing not working...

See, NVidia Display Properties override (setting to 2x or higher rather than Application Controlled) activates AA on an Nvidia card for FS2. to fix the FS2 fonts you set a SAMPLE Setting in the Launcher.

---- OVERVIEW OF FINDINGS ON MY GF4 TI4200 ----

Nvidia override 2x or higher + NO_SAMPLE = AA, but FS2 fonts are scrwewed up

Nvidia override "Application Controlled" + 2_SAMPLE or higher = No AA,  no font problems, but FPS is killed, esp. in menus.

Nvidia override 2x or higher + 2_SAMPLE or higher = AA works, with no font problems.

[Taristin]

Lol, you didn't have to edit your post. I wasn't annoyed by it.

[ChronoReverse]

@greg


Lol, I don't mean that the Voodoo didn't have FSAA, it just doesn't implement it in the way modern card do (with some exceptions like the Parhelia).

The 3DFX way was a good idea, but it has trouble with artifacts when combined with shaders.


Finally, the VSA-100 (the chip inside the Voodoo 4-6) didn't even have HTL much less shaders (perhaps you were thinking of the Rampage?).

[Gregster2k]

Originally posted by Gregster2k
Alas, the V5 has no Hardware T&L unit.

it DID have some very simple basic shaders, I believe. but it also had a unit in it that was specifically designed to do special effects like motion blur and stuff which nvidia didnt have. i think the GeForceFX is NVidia's answer to that unit...it just surprises me that GFFX came out so much later.

anyway im not going to turn this into an antialiasing discussion. Just wanted to let all know how to get AA without uglies.

Set it in Display properties AND the launcher. Simple as that. "Application Controlled" mode DOESNT WORK for FS2.

If you have Anisotropic Filtering on in Display Properties, set it to Application Controlled, or Off. Anisotropic KILLS my fps when i combine it with ANY form of AA

[ChronoReverse]

Eh?  Shaders were implemented in the GF3.

In any case, the Voodoo5 supposedly did its special effects not with shaders but rather with its special "T-buffer".

[[BoA]_Scoob]

strange how that is then, I thought the control panel simply ignored application settings and forced that AA mode for all D3D applications.  And no, I guess I didn't notice the jaggies were still there.  At the time the AA appeared to work

[Gregster2k]

Maybe I was unclear. the control panel DOES force AA on everything. It's just...

- When the *control panel*is set by the user to have Application Controlled AA, where the programs request how much AA to use, the launcher's AA settings don't do anything to activate anti-aliasing, but the game still slows down, for reasons I do not understand.

- When the *control panel* is set by the user to force a certain AA level for all 3D programs...the Launcher's AA setting MUST be higher than NO_SAMPLES, or else ALL the text in FreeSpace 2 Open will be completely annihilated.

- Unchecking "Fix GeForce Text Problem" will screw up the FSO ingame text on GeForce cards, whether AA is being used or not.

- If you have Application Controlled off, and the AA is set to Off in your Display Properties, of course you won't be able to get AA at all.

***EASY TWO SENTENCE THING:
Nvidia Display Properties turns ON Anti-Aliasing...and the Launcher 2_SAMPLES or higher FIXES the AA Ugly Text Ingame problem. They go hand in hand. You must have both on, or none at all, else suffer the ugly slowdowns or text glitches that are incurred.

[Setekh]

Gregster, I have a similar experience with my GF4MX. Looks like you figured out the solution like I did, though.

[Gregster2k]

yeah. Is this in the SCP manual yet? i mean, it should, if they never fix the launcher's AA setting to work with application controlled AA...

of course, that's going to be hard because diff video cards and all, i always ahve problems when a game offers an AA setting my card doesnt support...fix it for NVidia you might break ATI, etc >_<