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Offline Ghostavo

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Quote
Originally posted by an0n
Starfleet was recruiting people like Kirk to make first contact with alien races and forge delicate diplomatic ties with people who could mistake a hand gesture for a declaration of war


:wtf:

So why would StarFleet want to start a war with every race in the galaxy? :D
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Offline Beowulf

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Qur’an 9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and am**** them using every stratagem of war.”

Qur’an 9:29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.”

Qur’an 8:39 “Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.”

Qur’an 8:39 “So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world).”

Qur’an 8:65 “O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding.”

Qur’an 4:95 “Not equal are believers who sit home and receive no hurt and those who fight in Allah’s Cause with their wealth and lives. Allah has granted a grade higher to those who fight with their possessions and bodies to those who sit home. Those who fight He has distinguished with a special reward.”

Qur’an 8:67 “It is not fitting for any prophet to have prisoners until he has made a great slaughtered in the land.”

Qur’an 8:7 “Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: ‘Wipe the infidels out to the last.’”


Qur’an 9:29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.”

Qur’an 9:38 “Believers, what is the matter with you, that when you are asked to go forth and fight in Allah’s Cause you cling to the earth? Do you prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? Unless you go forth, He will afflict and punish you with a painful doom, and put others in your place.”

Qur’an 9:123 “Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you.”

Qur’an 8:39 “So, fight them till all opposition ends and the only religion is Islam.”


Qur’an 4:95 “Not equal are those believers who sit at home and receive no injurious hurt, and those who strive hard, fighting Jihad in Allah’s Cause with their wealth and lives. Allah has granted a rank higher to those who strive hard, fighting Jihad with their wealth and bodies to those who sit (at home). Unto each has Allah promised good, but He prefers Jihadists who strive hard and fight above those who sit home. He has distinguished his fighters with a huge reward.”

Qur’an 2:216 “Jihad (holy fighting in Allah’s Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims), though you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and like a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knows, and you know not.” [Another translation reads:] “Warfare is ordained for you.”
« Last Edit: May 15, 2004, 08:35:16 pm by 1189 »
Never Forget

"It is always better to avenge dear ones than to induldge in mourning. For every one of us, living in this world means waiting for our end. Let whoever can win glory before death. When a warrior is gone, that will be his best and only bulwark."
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Offline 01010

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Islam, Christianity, it's all the same **** with different names and different skin colours. It's all a pile of bollocks. When people realise that their lives will not cease to exist without religion and that their beliefs are just that, beliefs, nothing more than the way they've been taught and raised and they come to realise that just because you believe it, doesn't make it true, I think the world will become a much better place.
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Offline karajorma

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Quote
Originally posted by Beowulf
Qur’an 8:39 “Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.”


Seems pretty nasty till you read the verse before it.

8:38 Tell them who disbelieve that if they cease (from persecution of believers) that which is past will be forgiven them ; but if they return (thereto) then the example of men of old hath already gone (before them a warning).

or read another translation
 
8:39  And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.

So basically it's calling for the death or conversion of those who persecute muslims. Not what you were claiming when you took it out of context.

Quote
Originally posted by Beowulf
8 29 Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.


Guess what. The Koran is as full of stupid contradictions as the bible is.

109 Many of the people of the Scripture long to make you disbelievers after your belief, through envy on their own account, after the truth hath become manifest unto them. Forgive and be indulgent (toward them) until Allah give command. Lo! Allah is Able to do all things.

Someone who has studied the Koran could pull apart this whole arguement in the same way. The general consensus is that the Koran advocates violence only to return violence. It doesn't advocate the kind of wholesale slaughter of unbelievers you claim it does.

Besides you can make exactly the same arguements against the bible.

Deuteronomy 17:5
    Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, [Belief in another god] unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

2 Chronicles 15:13
    That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

And so as to prove it wasn't just old testement crap.
Titus 1:10
    For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
1:11
    Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
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Offline karajorma

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Quote
Originally posted by 01010
Islam, Christianity, it's all the same **** with different names and different skin colours. It's all a pile of bollocks. When people realise that their lives will not cease to exist without religion and that their beliefs are just that, beliefs, nothing more than the way they've been taught and raised and they come to realise that just because you believe it, doesn't make it true, I think the world will become a much better place.


:yes: Agree 100% with that statement.
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Offline Bobboau

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doesn't mean it can't be made to suport a violent wholesale slaughter of unbelievers, people do it with the Bible all the time.
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Offline 01010

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Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau
doesn't mean it can't be made to suport a violent wholesale slaughter of unbelievers, people do it with the Bible all the time.


No, that's fundamentalism, not the Quo'ran (sp?) or the Bible itself, people with no sense of irony who take the word literally and unquestioningly.
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Offline Gank

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Back flogging the muslims want to kill us all so we have to kill them first and get their oil ****e again?

 

Offline Rictor

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...well, you need someone to stand in, now that the Commies are no longer the big bad boogyman. And the fact that the media can widely represent Muslims as fundamentalists and fanatics makes them a perfect fit.

 

Offline Beowulf

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No, one can't make the same argument for the Bible... none of those Bible verses quoted, out of context or in, advocate the wholesale slaughter of "infidels" or "unbelievers" or "gentiles" such as the Qur'an does. Further, none claim that God has ordained a life of warfare for his believers as the Qu'ran states allah does.

Second, the Bible is not full of contradictions at all. If one understands the totality of the Scriptures, then he will grasp the continuity of the work.

Thirdly, Mohammed was most likely the most evil man alive. He was a mass-murderer, a pedophile, a rapist, and a liar. I dare anyone to go find a list of his exploits.

Lastly, none of those explanations of context in regards to the Qu'ran make any sense or diminish the message of the verses quoted.

Qur’an 2:216 “Jihad (holy fighting in Allah’s Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims), though you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and like a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knows, and you know not.” [Another translation reads:] “Warfare is ordained for you.”


Islam: a religion of the sword.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2004, 11:16:24 am by 1189 »
Never Forget

"It is always better to avenge dear ones than to induldge in mourning. For every one of us, living in this world means waiting for our end. Let whoever can win glory before death. When a warrior is gone, that will be his best and only bulwark."
                               --Beowulf


"... and no, real life sex is not just a myth. You just need to come out of your house once every while..." ~Tiara

YeeeeHoooooh! is the mood of the day. :p

 

Offline karajorma

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Quote
Originally posted by Beowulf
No, one can't make the same argument for the Bible... none of those Bible verses quoted, out of context or in, advocate the wholesale slaughter of "infidels" or "unbelievers" or "gentiles" such as the Qur'an does. Further, none claim that God has ordained a life of warfare for his believers as the Qu'ran states allah does.


The quote from Chronicles advocates the death of any unbeliever. That makes it the equal of anything you quoted. Furthermore...

Dt.13:6 "If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die."

So the Bible is less militant. It still makes the same pronouncements.

Quote
Originally posted by Beowulf
Second, the Bible is not full of contradictions at all. If one understands the totality of the Scriptures, then he will grasp the continuity of the work.


Sorry but it is.  Here's a list Skeptics Guide to the Bible

Quote
Originally posted by Beowulf
Thirdly, Mohammed was most likely the most evil man alive. He was a mass-murderer, a pedophile, a rapist, and a liar. I dare anyone to go find a list of his exploits.


And you can find prophets all over the bible who commited every single one of those crimes. Your point?

Quote
Originally posted by Beowulf
Lastly, none of those explanations of context in regards to the Qu'ran make any sense or diminish the message of the verses quoted.

Qur’an 2:216 “Jihad (holy fighting in Allah’s Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims), though you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and like a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knows, and you know not.” [Another translation reads:] “Warfare is ordained for you.”
 


Except that you've got a mistranslation there. The real quote is

Quote
216 Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not.


The bible is equally full of examples of God telling his followers to go to war.  This really isn't much different.  The bible is full of examples of God telling his chosen people to go into some country and kick the crap out of the inhabitants there.
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Offline Grey Wolf

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The Bible also tells you to kill all prisoners of war. You miss that?
You see things; and you say "Why?" But I dream things that never were; and I say "Why not?" -George Bernard Shaw

 

Offline 01010

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**** it, I'm practicing fundamental aetheism, don't believe or die. Simple.
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Offline Gank

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Right little bigot arent you beowolf, with attitudes like yours its no wonder Bin Laden and co see the US as the devil.

 
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*holds his head in his hands*

glad im agnostic....:rolleyes:
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Offline karajorma

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Quote
Originally posted by Gank
Right little bigot arent you beowolf, with attitudes like yours its no wonder Bin Laden and co see the US as the devil.


And that's the problem. One bunch of idiotic religious fundementalists having an go at a different bunch of idiotic religious fundementalists over which one has the correct book of fairy stories.  It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.
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Offline an0n

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The Bible also tells you to kill fags, witches and fortune tellers. But if you're a farmer you're supposed to leave some of your crop un-harvested so tramps can feed themselves.

And if you **** a girl then don't marry her, you've got to pay off her father.
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Offline vyper

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It's all about power...
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Offline neo_hermes

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/me hides under a table watching the discussion goin on....
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Offline karajorma

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Quote
Originally posted by an0n
And if you **** a girl then don't marry her, you've got to pay off her father.


Not to mention if you're ugly with no social skills you've only got to rape a virgin to get yourself a wife.
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