[Jonathan_S47]

Originally posted by Kazan
everyone write emails to all your House Reps for your state condemning this attack on the constitution.
 

Can’t, South Dakota’s house rep had to stand down after being convicted of Vehicular Manslaughter.

[Reez]

nice rep there johnny.

[Jonathan_S47]

He was only elected so we could get him out of the state. That and he was Republican, which gets just about anyone elected around here.

[Corsair]

People live in South Dakota?

[Kazan]

bobboau: there is a case in point - how is demanding other people respect my right not to be poisoned "authoritarian" - that's just one of many thing

[Bobboau]

I said other than that. specificly becae I knew I wasn't going to be able to move you on the issue. it has not been conclusively determined that second hand smoke provides a signifigant, let alone major health risk.

it's authoritarian becase it involves putting the government in the position of determineing the corect beleifes and behavior of it's people. you want to ban people from smokeing in there own houses, how is that not authoritarian?

[Rictor]

"When you have a government big enough to give you everything you want, its big enough to take everything you have."

Davy Crockett. Not a great philosopher mind you, but he's got a cool hat and is considered one of the heros of American history.

[Beowulf]

Know what? Good.

It wouldn't be needed if judicial activism didn't run rampant (yes, like gay marriages). I don't care if your for or against it, the courts DO NOT have the right to make law.

[Reez]

none of the courts make law per say. they declare things unconstitutional and leave the write-ups to other people

[Bobboau]

actualy what there doing is exactly what there suposed to be doing, makeing sure congress doesn't screw up too baddly.

[Beowulf]

Umm. Yeah. NOWHERE is there law saying gays can marry. Courts have made law by saying that they can... the APPROPRIATE thing to do is to now AMEND the law to include gays.

[Bobboau]

does it actualy say they can't?

if someone's rights are violated by the law it's up to the courts to through out the law that is violateing them.

[Kazan]

Originally posted by Bobboau
I said other than that. specificly becae I knew I wasn't going to be able to move you on the issue. it has not been conclusively determined that second hand smoke provides a signifigant, let alone major health risk.

way to ignore 20 years of studies

it's authoritarian becase it involves putting the government in the position of determineing the corect beleifes and behavior of it's people. you want to ban people from smokeing in there own houses, how is that not authoritarian?

because there is no such thing as "privacy of your own home" when it comes to atmospheric pollutants - their houses air exchanges with the air outside, your houses air exchanges witth the air outside
I have it happen to me all the time - asshole smokers outside or in another building smoke, their smoke drifts out their windows, and into mine and stinks up my appartment.

So if demanding my right not to be poisoned is authoritarian then I guess i;m a ****ing dictator

attitudes like yours are exactly why people continue to be able to continue poisoning me a little every day

[Kazan]

Originally posted by Beowulf
Umm. Yeah. NOWHERE is there law saying gays can marry. Courts have made law by saying that they can... the APPROPRIATE thing to do is to now AMEND the law to include gays.

go take a constitutional law class dimwit

[Janos]

Kazan, are you flipping out? Your posts seem to get more and more angry byt the time.

But yeah, this sucks. It does not touch me directly - yet - as I'm not an American, but the general way USA is heading is pretty goddamn ironic.

[Kazan]

I don't like getting up at 6 am and getting called authoritarian for not wanting to be poisoned

[Fineus]

Just try and calm it down a bit, if you start a thread and voice your views you have to accept that others may disagree. You also have to realise that you can walk away from this forum at any time for as long as you please and come back when you've cooled off. You don't have to go bull at a gate.

Just try and keep things civil... and that goes for everyone.

[vyper]

Actually, second hand smoke has been acknowledged by the British Government as a danger to public health for a while now, and is why there have been various proposals to legislate against smoking in public places like pubs, clubs and restaraunts. Naturally it's ran into opposition from civil rights groups and smokers groups, but on this occassion it's fair to say the right and responsibilities do not match fairly.

[Bobboau]

hmmm

[Kazan]

There is a difference between a right and an exercise of a right

Exercises of a right fall into two catageories: Protected and Non-protected

Protected: Any exercise of a right that is not in the Non-Protected group
Non-Protected: Any exercise of a right that causes infringment of other peoples rights.

This is the legal definition, though not in legalese.  Smoking is a Non-Protected right technically, yet everyone forgets that fact and wants to lump it in with Protected rights.  This is merely because anyone who could and would make the argument get's stonewalled by people with billiobs more dollars than them.  People who make money of letting other people kill themselves and poison others.

You do not have a right to smoke --- Period

-----------------

Bobboau: That is why libertarians are naivfe, they do not differentiate between Protected and Non-protected rights, under their ideas you can abuse other peoples rights so long as you are exercising your own, so I guess I can beat people up randomly because I am exercising my right to happiness, even though I'm violating their right to happyness, and right to bodily integrity.


That's where the Libertarian view of what rights are leaves you.  Libertarianism is one step from anarchism, and anyone who thinks anarchism can work and have everyone equal, unabused, etc is just downright foolish.  Furthermore anarchism will never remain pure for more than 5 minutes, someone will start trying to carve out control and will form some other kind of control mechanism, probably authoritarian, even if they do not call it a government