[KS_Al]

I would like to bring up a topic......I'm known to bring up topics such as the best battles in all of history and the brilliant generals but this topic US vs China over conventional warfare......for those people who don't know what conventional is traditional infantry tank and air warfare.......Forget nukes.  

My thoughts if we went to war with China......It would be Vietnam all over again.  Remember Operation Rolling thunder how we bombed the North Vietnamese.  Actually we crippled their economy but we didn't cripple their will.  It would be the same with China.  Since their population is 2 billion and they have a huge army unlike the US Army.  but their Navy and Air Force is not as strong but army wise their numbers are big.  Most of their terrain is like Vietnam's and i think the west and north are mountainous regions which are hard to fight on.  the jungles proven that US forces are not capable to fight guerrilla warfare also Iraq shows proof as also.  Of open outside the US could win but if guerrilla barely a chance with a basic common US soldier. but if you're thinking of a US Special Forces Soldier such as Delta or Green Beret or SEAL or Ranger they maybe have a chance.  China will win with a war of atrittion with huge numbers as they did in Korea.  They have numerous battalions and they have Russian made weapons and tanks which T-80s are capable to beat M-1 abrams. If it was a t-72 that would be a different story.  Don't think Abrams are always the best they can be destroyed or crippled by an RPG.  China does have a reasonable Air Force and Navy but no doubt the US can win the sea and air but not by land.    About land warfare......China could ambush American forces as Vietnam did.  The reason America had lost in Vietnam because they were loud the Vietnamese could hear their radios their equipment.  That would be the same if there was a war with China. My conclusion is it can be a stalemate or withdrawal for the US.  and the US cannot win.

I welcome any arguements or agreements keep debating!

[jdjtcagle]

China vs US = WWIII

[Flipside]

America is currently refitting it's tanks with the Armour that is fitted on British Tanks, which can shrug off an RPG hit in most cases. We swapped it for the American Multi-Target tracking system

As for China vs US, I agree with jdjtcagle here, since it may start out as a ground war, but if America tried to invade, they would be decimalised in ground combat, so then it would switch to nukes, simply to cut down the number of Chinese troops. And we all know where things would go from there.

Not that I think this scenario is likely to appear, the two countries are too closely related financially.

[Rictor]

assuming there is someone left alive to write the history.

[aldo_14]

It would entirely depend on how willing the US would be to carpet bomb...... I

[Stealth]

yeah.  well chances are it won't happen directly, because have you wondered why the US hasn't messed with China?  they're an extremely big nation, and if China goes to war the America, i'm pretty sure many other asian nations will join them.  it's a power America doesn't want to mess with, because they're not helpless, defenseless people.  they'll fight back.

[Stealth]

then it would switch to nukes, simply to cut down the number of Chinese troops. And we all know where things would go from there.

yes, correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't China have nukes too?  therefore America won't be messing with them too quickly, because for every nuke America sends to China, they'll send one right back  See like i said, they're not helpless, and defenseless.

[jdjtcagle]

(China) They have the largest Army in the World IIRC

[Stealth]

yes, but America has the most powerful.

still, America wouldn't attack them, because they'd put up quite a fight.

[Rictor]

Stealth: no they won't. Maybe maybe maybe maybe North Korea, but no one else. Other asian nations are scared to death of China, and would likely join with the US in order to get rid of the big threat next door in favour of the big threat across the ocean.

but such a scenario is unlikely.

The US would be unwilling to take any significant amount of casualties. A few hundred thousand and the people at home would be screaming for an end to the war. China on the other hand has over a billion people which they can throw into the war.

[jdjtcagle]

Well it's obvious that one day a nuclear holocast gets started, with all the bozos that run countries

[Rictor]

Ahhh, the missles are comming! Fire our ****!

But I am le tired.

Oh alright, take a nap, then fire our ****!

[an0n]

America would get raped to death.

If they tried conventional warfare, China has enough troops and fanaticised population that it could just swarm tanks with people and crack them open with crowbars and ****.

Air support would be non-existant thanks to the high density of Chinese cities and towns (there could be 40 RPG and missile guys hiding all over the place).

And that'd mean it would come down solely to: Chinese Troops, Choppers, Tanks and Jets VS American Troops and Tanks (provided they could land them in the first place).

Then there's the non-conventional warfare. Chinese guerillas and organised criminals would rape American troops the second they entered a city. And China would be able to 'employ' Triad assasins, who are about the best you can get. And then there's all the China towns in America, that're packed with fireworks and cheap firearms.

If America decided to go the 'Nuke the bastards' way, they MIGHT wipe out the Chinese army, but China would respond in kind and nothing would survive.

If by some miracle America managed to destroy the Chinese command heirarchy, there's still the geographical aspect of the battlefield. China has a ****load of mountainous, junglous terrain for renegade divisions to hide in.

Chances of American Victory: Slim to none.

[jdjtcagle]

[Rictor]

yeah, those Triad guys are dangerous mofos. They're all like "forgiveness please" and don't look like they're going to do anything, but then they flip out and take down a tank with their bare hands.

[jdjtcagle]

And also, What started the war could mean a change in the victory for either side.  If America started the war, tehn we already knew they couldn't win but then they now have other countries on china's side.  But, if China started the war, then it could be very different.  The UN and other countries, would be with the US and would eventually signing the treaty to One Government!!! Just Hoping

[Jiggyhound]

countdown to nucleur holocaust - imminent in my opinion. I think WWIII should be just around the corner, pretty much east versus west.

[Flipside]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... Humanity itself has an extremely powerful self-preservation drive. Dark times are ahead, I agree, the more our governments remove our abilities to make a choice for ourselves, the closer we get.

Things aren't quite at the WWIII stage though, the tension in Iraq is actually easing slightly now, though obviously, there is much to do. And all the IDF have achieved in Rafah is to reveal to the West, and the Media, a side of itself that will remain in peoples minds. Not a solution, but at least a recognition that there is a problem which cannot be turned away from.

The Arab states have, somewhat quietly, admitted that mismanagement of funds and corruption have also played a role in causing problems in the Middle East, and China has enough internal problems to make it far too busy to think about World Domination.

[Jetmech Jr.]

meh, everyone seems to be assuming the fight would take place in China. Why not a "middle ground?" Of course the Chinese have an immense advantage in terms of numbers, but thats what bombs and napalm are for

I'd say stalemate, as the U.S. doesnt really have the firepower to hold off that many numbers, and Chinese casualties would be so enormous, that they'd get swallowed up and beaten down by surrounding asian nations. As for guerrilla tactics, suppose so, but then again, its kinda hard to quickly hide 1000000+ soldiers.

[Gank]

Originally posted by an0n
America would get raped to death.

Conventional warfare definitley. Americas much vaunted airpower is actually pretty ineffective if you actually look behind the hype of cluster bombs and moabs, for example in Serbia Nato claimed 800+ tanks destroyed, when the Serbians withdrew from Kosovo they left behind 2 dozen wrecks and paraded their armour in front of the cameras. Besides that China has massive amounts of sams, mostly late russian models. They're also buying Yah'konts off the russians, a missle designed specifically to defeat aegis radars and take out a carrier with one hit. Not to mention their latest tank is more advanced than the abrams. That said theres virtually no chance of conventional war between the two, if they do come to blows, and its more likely than people think it'll be done with proxys.