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Author Topic: Oh look, the monkey can talk.  (Read 3658 times)

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Offline Rictor

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Reply #20 on: June 21, 2004, 04:09:30 pm
Well, regardless of why and how Iraq was created, I don't see what the Iraqi people themselves have done to deserve a decade of sanctions and bombing. Keep in mind, Saddam != Iraq, not even he was in power.
  

Offline PeachE

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Reply #21 on: June 21, 2004, 04:20:59 pm
no, no i agree completely. and that's the problem i have with this open war approach to the problem. it's not just that the iraqi people see themselves as being punished, but they ARE being punished. they didn't do anything to deserve this occupation. they didn't do anything to deserve having the fight brought to their doorstep.

if the US wanted a regime change, fine. i can weigh the good and the bad, and i would agree that having a regime change in Iraq at this stage of history is probably a good idea. but the regime change is over. Saddam is gone. we need to end this urban warfare ****ing now. leave troops there to protect Iraq while it's reforming itself, sure. but end the occupation.
 

Offline vyper

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Reply #22 on: June 21, 2004, 04:22:33 pm
Ric ur wasting ur time, he doesn't WANT to hear it. I felt it necessary to prod the matter slightly but, meh...
"But you live, you learn.  Unless you die.  Then you're ****ed." - aldo14
 

Offline Singh

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Reply #23 on: June 21, 2004, 04:56:44 pm
Quote
Originally posted by ionia23
In reality, it starts with knock off blaming the US for everyone else's problems.  It's tiresome and ****ing old.


well, you DID put your nose into everyone's business during the cold war.....consider this payback :P

seriously though; I have no problem with the US myself....just NIMBY.
"Blessed be the FREDder that knows his sexps."
"Cursed be the FREDder that trusts FRED2_Open."
Dreamed of much, accomplished little. :(
 

Offline vyper

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Reply #24 on: June 21, 2004, 05:01:51 pm
I have a problem with them 'cos they're not us. :lol:
"But you live, you learn.  Unless you die.  Then you're ****ed." - aldo14
 

Offline Corsair

  • Gull Wings Rule
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Oh look, the monkey can talk.
Reply #25 on: June 21, 2004, 05:31:55 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
In the real world, when you hit someone, you are responsible for it. Not Pete or Bob, but you.
So err...something like this?

:D:D
Wash: This landing's gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: *shrug* "Oh God, oh God, we're all gonna die"?
Mal: This is the captain. We have a little problem with our entry sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and then... explode.
 

Offline Gank

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Reply #26 on: June 21, 2004, 05:54:58 pm
Quote
Originally posted by PeachE
here, i agree with you. our alignment with Israel is getting ****ing ridiculous. personally, i don't feel that Palestine should have ever been chosen as a homeland. and if the US even wants to think about peace in the middle east, we need to seriously consider changing sides.


Two points here, first as far as the zionists were concerned there was no other choice, Palestine had been given to them by God and it was tough **** on the people who happened to live there. Uganda and Madagascar were both proposed as alternative countrys iirc but both turned down. Secondly, US will not stop supporting Israel unconditionally because the US is run by christian fundies, who think that any concessions to Israels enemys is giving in to Satan.
 

Offline PeachE

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Reply #27 on: June 21, 2004, 06:11:05 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Gank


Two points here, first as far as the zionists were concerned there was no other choice, Palestine had been given to them by God and it was tough **** on the people who happened to live there. Uganda and Madagascar were both proposed as alternative countrys iirc but both turned down. Secondly, US will not stop supporting Israel unconditionally because the US is run by christian fundies, who think that any concessions to Israels enemys is giving in to Satan.


that's all true. iirc, Herzl even presented the Uganda scheme, though it was really a tactical decision. i understand that they saw that there was no other choice and that the land was given to them by god. but imo, that's just too bad. to my knowledge, god is not a real estate dealer.

and i also understand the US will not stop supporting Israel. but it's not just the religious right. true, the Conservative Christians are tied too closely to the area to give it up to the Arabs. but the left wing is also tied to israel because of its devotion to minorities and its ties to the jewish lobby.

i'm not saying it's going to happen. i understand it won't. not this century. it just should.
 

Offline ionia23

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Reply #28 on: June 21, 2004, 06:15:43 pm
And maybe someone decided the Jews needed some backing, as no one else could be bothered.
"Why does it want me to say my name?"
 

Offline PeachE

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Reply #29 on: June 21, 2004, 06:21:06 pm
so "no one else could be bothered" is a legitimate reason for backing them? and forget backing Sharon. if the US wanted to do something good for the mideast, they would have shot him the second he took power.
 

Offline vyper

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Reply #30 on: June 21, 2004, 06:24:02 pm
Considering the fact we (the British) carved up the land to give them a country post ww2, I wouldn't get all "we're (US) the ones helping the jews".

Besides, they don't need any1's backing. They're doing a fine job of killing innocent civilians all by themselves.
"But you live, you learn.  Unless you die.  Then you're ****ed." - aldo14
 

Offline ionia23

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Reply #31 on: June 21, 2004, 06:27:49 pm
Quote
Originally posted by PeachE
so "no one else could be bothered" is a legitimate reason for backing them? and forget backing Sharon. if the US wanted to do something good for the mideast, they would have shot him the second he took power.


What a great idea.  Hey, here's an even better one.  How about we cease all backing of Israel, militarily or otherwise?  Just leave them to their own devices and let the chips fall where they may.  I'd give them about a year before a unified attack annihiliates the whole lot of them.  Nip that 'Jew' problem in the bud and make you all happy, plus it'd save a hell of a lot of money on new ovens.
"Why does it want me to say my name?"
 

Offline Mr. Vega

  • Your Node Is Mine
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Reply #32 on: June 21, 2004, 06:34:51 pm
Quote
Originally posted by ionia23


What a great idea.  Hey, here's an even better one.  How about we cease all backing of Israel, militarily or otherwise?  Just leave them to their own devices and let the chips fall where they may.  I'd give them about a year before a unified attack annihiliates the whole lot of them.  Nip that 'Jew' problem in the bud and make you all happy, plus it'd save a hell of a lot of money on new ovens.

Explain this then:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_War

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1956_Suez_War


[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Six_Day_War[/URL]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970_War_of_Attrition

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Lebanon_War
« Last Edit: June 21, 2004, 06:49:56 pm by 490 »
Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assaults of thoughts on the unthinking.
-John Maynard Keynes
 

Offline ionia23

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Reply #33 on: June 21, 2004, 06:35:36 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Mr. Vega

Explain this then:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isreal#Wars


This is a Wikipedia entry on various wars in Israel.
"Why does it want me to say my name?"
 

Offline Mr. Vega

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Reply #34 on: June 21, 2004, 06:38:36 pm
Isreali victory, Isreali victory, Isreali victory, Isreali victory
« Last Edit: June 21, 2004, 06:46:01 pm by 490 »
Words ought to be a little wild, for they are the assaults of thoughts on the unthinking.
-John Maynard Keynes
 

Offline ionia23

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Reply #35 on: June 21, 2004, 06:42:05 pm
Quote
Originally posted by Mr. Vega
Notice who won these wars.


Notice how much things have expanded since then.  They're surrounded and outnumbered.

Please excuse the extreme hostile sarcasm of my earlier post.  I just get tired of people bagging on Israel with impunity and completely ignoring everything that is done to them in the first place.  At this point, neither side seems to know how to win for good.
"Why does it want me to say my name?"
 

Offline PeachE

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Reply #36 on: June 21, 2004, 06:42:36 pm
Quote
Originally posted by ionia23
Nip that 'Jew' problem in the bud and make you all happy, plus it'd save a hell of a lot of money on new ovens.


right, i don't support israel and hate sharon, so i must be a anti--semite, and a nazi at that :rolleyes: un****ingbelievable

Quote
Originally posted by ionia23
What a great idea.  Hey, here's an even better one.  How about we cease all backing of Israel, militarily or otherwise?  Just leave them to their own devices and let the chips fall where they may.  I'd give them about a year before a unified attack annihiliates the whole lot of them.


1948, 1956, 1967, 1970, 1973

though american involvement is suspected by many Arabs in 1967. i haven't read enough on the subject to make up my mind.
 

Offline PeachE

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Reply #37 on: June 21, 2004, 06:43:57 pm
Quote
Originally posted by ionia23
Notice how much things have expanded since then.  They're surrounded and outnumbered.


:eek2:  you're right. they weren't surrounded or outnumbered in any of those wars... :wtf:
 

Offline diamondgeezer

Oh look, the monkey can talk.
Reply #38 on: June 21, 2004, 06:45:43 pm
Quote
Originally posted by ionia23
Notice how much things have expanded since then.  They're surrounded and outnumbered.

And armed with nukes and a belief that they can get away with anything because the US protects them :nod:

Now that's not to say the US would approve the use of nukes - hell, even Britain pretty much needs US permission to operate missile subs and ****. But lets face it, Israel has clearly ignored the 'rules' of war, such as don't massacre refugee camps in full sight of the world press then sing about what big men you are for doing so.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2004, 06:48:01 pm by 170 »
 

Offline vyper

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Reply #39 on: June 21, 2004, 06:46:53 pm
[q]What a great idea. Hey, here's an even better one. How about we cease all backing of Israel, militarily or otherwise? Just leave them to their own devices and let the chips fall where they may. I'd give them about a year before a unified attack annihiliates the whole lot of them. Nip that 'Jew' problem in the bud and make you all happy, plus it'd save a hell of a lot of money on new ovens.[/q]

You know just because we don't like the Israelis killing innocent civvys doesn't make us all Aryan Nationalists...
"But you live, you learn.  Unless you die.  Then you're ****ed." - aldo14
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