[Rictor]

Well, I believe that borders are somewhat of an oppressive measure, so the point is moot. Going all the way back to Adam Smith, freedom of movement has always been part and parcel of freedom of association and especially freedom of commerce.

________________


Two Pakistani friends move to America at the same time, and upon their arrival, they decide to place a little wager. In a year, which ever of them manages to become more America must buy the other dinner.

Well, a year passes, and they meet to settle the contest.

"I have a high paying job in IT, I drove here in an SUV, my son plays on the highschool football team and my daughter is dating American boys, lets see you beat that!", says one.

"**** you, towelhead", replies the other.

[Stealth]

Originally posted by Ghostavo
Stealth, the american "culture" is a mix of a lot of diferent cultures... that IS the american dream...

note, a mix of different cultures, but that all speak (for the most part) the same language.  as i said, i've got nothing wrong with Mexicans swimming the border, trying to find a new and better life for themselves.  i'm all for that... THAT"S part of the Americn dream.  but to come to a country where 99% of the population speaks English, and then not ATTEMPT to even learn English, and to expect everywhere you go people to talk to you in  YOUR COUNTRY's language... that. is. not. right.

you're coming to America, where people speak English primarily, have freedom of speech, religion, etc. don't expect everyone to speak to you like you're living in your country.  you're living in a different country.  speak the country's language.

[Flipside]

Well, as far as languages are concerned, most English students are extremely lazy when it comes to foreign languages, we really are appalling at learning them I'm afraid

And Kalfireth is 100% right about a large percentage of the current school generation I'm ashamed to say Punishment has been replaced by counselling etc. What it basically means is that if a kid walks in to class smoking a joint, he can pretty much garauntee himself every wednesday off for the next 2 months for counselling.

I guess I'm just bitter in my old age, but, If I'd said I had something like an 'Attention defficiency syndrome' I'd have got an hours detention and told to swap my 'syndrome' for an education, and the only 'issues' they cared about were whether you'd done your homework or not The scary bit is.... that actually makes more sense to me.

[jdjtcagle]

FYI, America has NO official language.  Especially in big cities
but small cities are mostly spanish and english

[Knight Templar]

Err... yes it does... English...

[Ghostavo]

Originally posted by Stealth
(...)come to a country where 99% of the population speaks English, and then not ATTEMPT to even learn English, and to expect everywhere you go people to talk to you in YOUR COUNTRY's language... that. is. not. right.

Originally posted by Knight Templar
Err... yes it does... English...

Bullsh*t

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_in_the_United_States

Originally written in the site above posted
(...)
some states, English, Hawaiian and Spanish are official.
(...)
The English-Only movement seeks to establish English as the only official language of the nation.
(...)

[Stealth]

Originally posted by Ghostavo




Bullsh*t

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_in_the_United_States

 

that link you posted... note how 10%+ of the population speaks primarily Spanish... i'll bet if you go back ten years, the percentage of primarily English speakers would be over 90%

I don't care if they all speak Spanish to themselves... i really don't, but do you think it's right to come into a country where people PRIMARILY speak English (the average american anyway) and expect people to learn YOUR language rather than you learning the accepted language of the country you swam the border to come to?  i don't think it's right.  

if you want to come to America, the land of the free and home of the brave and all that bull****, and you come to escape the poverty, political persecution, religious persecution, etc. and you expect everyone to treat you with respect and grant you all the rights of an American, but you don't want to learn their language, you expect them to all speak yours.  that's an insult.  and when people come up to me and ask me for directions, or locations of items in a store or whatever, and they come up to me and start going off in spanish, i want to slap them, because it shows complete disrespect.  i don't care if they say "sir, yo necessito find el tomatoes" that's cool, because at least they're TRYING to speak the ACCEPTED LANGUAGE among Americans... the language that was established at the same time, and by the same people, that established the nation.

[Nico]

How many times will you repeat yourself?
You should all talk Irokois anyway

[Knight Templar]

Iroquois

[Rictor]

Iroquois son, Iroquois.

I would actually love to be able to speak an Indian (yeah yeah, "Native") tongue. Its so obscure, it like using code language.

edit: damn you KT, foiled yet again...

[WMCoolmon]

Stealth...did you ever stop to think they might be more fluent in their own language, and so be more comfortable talking to people in it?

BTW, please clarify how speaking your native language is forcing your culture on other people.

[Ghostavo]

Stealth, you noticed the quotes I used from that article didn't you?

English is not THE oficial language of the United States as each state has it's own oficial languages, some of which include spanish. So you go to a state that has spanish also as a primary language and expect people not to speak it? Is that it?

[Stealth]

Originally posted by Ghostavo
So you go to a state that has spanish also as a primary language and expect people not to speak it? Is that it?

There is no state that has "spanish also as a primary language"... the only reason the percentage of spanish speakers is so high, is from the mexicans swimming the border.  i'll bet of that 10%, about 95% live in the southern states, borderlining Mexico

Nico: Yes i repeat myself, because obviously it's hard for people to understand what i'm trying to say when they don't experience it every day they go out of their house.

Immigrants that come to this country, are expecting people to learn Spanish, rather than the Immigrants learning English (Ghostavo and WMCoolmon:  don't keep saying "English isn't the official language of the United States"... i know that, but since by far the majority of people speak it, i think that people should learn to speak it...)

I mean, it's like a Hungarian coming over to the United States, and not learning to speak English..... expecting everyone to (or at least try to) speak to him in Hungarian.  you see how stupid that is?

BTW, please clarify how speaking your native language is forcing your culture on other people.

by going to a state that's 90% English, and going up to a white American (who will most likely not speak spanish) and then going off on them in spanish, and EXPECTING them to know what you're saying and do your best to help them.  you say it's not forcing the culture on other people, but i say, from experiencing it every time i go into a store or answer the phone, that it is.  and you watch, 10 years from now, you look at the ratio of spanish speakers in the country, and i'll bet it'll be up to 20%.  and it won't be because more americans are speaking spanish at home either...

[Flipside]

Must admit, I'd love to be able to talk native American

[Stealth]

yeah so would i, except that unfortunately when the british first colonized america, within a few years, the native american population dramatically decreased, and now is almost non-existant.

the accepted language is english.  since that's the language the first settlers that most Americans descended from spoke English.

[Flipside]

I'll agree with you that the reason Spanish is rising so rapidly as a language in America is because more Spanish speakers are entering the country, and, I can sympathise about how paranoid it can make people when you hear people who you know can speak English talking in Turkish or the like to each other whilst you are in the room. Living in London, this happens all the time,and yet we also have trainees who have lived in the UK all their lives (about 17 years) and yet their English is terrible because their parents refused to teach it to them because it is not 'their' language. Considering they are in England, this seems the most moronic reason I have ever heard in my life

I'm no better, I can speak a smattering of French, and if anyone wants to know if I have a sister, or should I break my pen, I'm sorted in German as well  I suspect to a large degree why the French try so hard to hang onto their culture, you only have to look for 5 minutes at the UK to see it

Yep, the British were good at genocide, that's why there aren't any native Tasmanians left either

[Zeronet]

I wanted to learn German, but my school insisted on french, so i insisted on not paying attention, hence i got a D. Still, the french are just defencive of their culture, i don't think they intend to be rude, i always found it a pleasent place, i not my kinda place.

[jdjtcagle]

Non existant?? no there still over here in Oklahoma

[Stunaep]

Originally posted by Kalfireth

That said, I wish England would forcefully teach students other languages properly... I feel it'd help a great deal. It'd also help if other nations attempted to speak the language of the country they're visiting but nevermind...

They don't? Two foreign languages are compulsory here in Estonia. Often they are English and Russian, of course.

Oh the advantages of living in a small country.

[Stunaep]

Originally posted by karajorma


It boils down to the fact that you should never assume someone is arrogant because they are French but that when you go to Paris you should expect to run into some very arrogant people sooner or later.

As opposed to?