[Tolwyn]

Originally posted by Toblerone
so DQ, are you saying that all pilots should be one man fleets and just do their thing without talking to other pilots? Are you saying that a squadron should be so unco-ordinated that it doesn't matter if a friendly is being shot at as long as you keep quiet? If so, I would never want to be your wingman.

finally

A voice of reason

[Starman01]

Hey, am I the only getting a deja-vu (correct spelled ?) on this treat ??

@Lynx : What I meant about the voice-files is that :

Currently we can set only 7 wingmans in message.tbl and their
belonging voice-lines. They will be mostly reserved for our major
roles. Would be strange, if someone from a rather unrelated wing
would send mission-chatter with the voice from main-actor **Name
censored**

But technically, if the message.tbl will be bumped up sooner or
later, it could be a solution. That way we can add the main-actors
and some "generic" wingmans.

[Skippy]

Originally posted by Lynx
How hard would background chatter to implement?

Concerning communications, Freespace many missions are rather shallow compared to other space sims I might name, because you hear nothing but the communication directed just at you. It'd be more immersive if you could hear the other pilots during the fight communicating with each other calling their targets, warning other pilots that there's something behind them etc.(without a comm animation, since the message isn't directed at the player, and less loud, since it's background chatter). It wouldn't need new audio files, since the ones already existing would be sufficient.

Another feature I suggested ages agou would be ambient sound points at ships. That shouldn't be really hard to achieve, since it's almost the same as the engine sound, which is located around the engine subsystem. It'd be really cool to have, for example, hear a continouus chattering, work sounds and the like echoing when you are in the hangar of a ship, for example.

To make the things easy, you want the same system as in Freelancer, no ?

[Lynx]

Freelancer had it too?

[Tolwyn]

Originally posted by Lynx
Freelancer had it too?

well, it uses a lot of comms

[ARothers]

It's annoying when a perfectly innocent thread about if (insert feature) can be implemented for a certain mod goes horribly wrong when an idiot tries to mess things up by saying that it's wrong.

Okay, maybe excesive background chatter is a bit undisaplined but I see nothing wrong with one pilot warning another pilot that there's an enmey on his/her tail or a pilot congratulating another pilot on a good kill.

[Starman01]

Originally posted by Lynx
Freelancer had it too?

Yeah. It has mostly some "who are you" and "where are you going"
and a few fight-comms, but it gave much more life to the flight-feeling IMO.

And I always liked the battle-chatter in WCP, something like that would
be excellent.

[gevatter Lars]

Originally posted by ARothers
It's annoying when a perfectly innocent thread about if (insert feature) can be implemented for a certain mod goes horribly wrong when an idiot tries to mess things up by saying that it's wrong.

Okay, maybe excesive background chatter is a bit undisaplined but I see nothing wrong with one pilot warning another pilot that there's an enmey on his/her tail or a pilot congratulating another pilot on a good kill.

Thats what its all about...games aren't their for beeing realistic...well maybe the MS flightsim, but not a fun game like WC, FS, StarLancer, FreeLancer or any other spacesim I know.

[QuantumDelta]

Heh, first post with valid stuff in it;

Originally posted by Tolwyn
I thought about it when I was working on a few projects of mine, and I think I am being too lenient towards you. First of all, WC Saga is a game, if all the dialogue was taken from real life operation and doctrine, it wouldn't be interesting.

That's true, as you said before to the sci-fi fans.
It's mainly something we pulled outta our TvT training, you wont be as good as anyone in a team if you're talking/typing/distracted by any means or needs to communicate.
In FS2 TvTs the reason everything was done so fluidly between the top pilots was litterally, because of the total lack of verbal or textual conversation (and yes we had access to teamspeak/etc).
Best done when you know your team mate well enough to read what he's going to do next, just by how he flies, and that's how most of the better teams were.


Hense why I have always been of the oppinion that it simply isn't needed.
If you guys do take it as merely an expression of oppinion;
That's all it is.
As is yours.
However several people have taken it as exception to that then turned around and said they are just expressing theirs.... that's fine but a little hypocritical

After all, do you really want to hear "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot" over and over again?!?!?" Keep in mind it would be said in a way that it'll be totally undecipherable to people who aren't familiar with that jargon: "Inbound Angels 30, Hotel Charlie, Fox-Two". How can a regular person understand that?

However it would easily be preferable to people such as myself since the other stuff is merely distracting, and rapidly annoying since it's merely showmanship.

The WC Saga project is supposed to appeal to science-fiction fans, not military hard cores.

Truth, not arguable with, and I do agree.

The most important thing is however: To fly a top-of-the-line jet fighter of today (and of course, of a fictional WC fighter of tomorrow) requires an individual with a well-balanced combination of intellect, maturity, discipline, talent, confidence, and ego. You have to be mature and quiet at times, but also, you have to have an ego (after all, it's you VS them, and you can’t lose).

and physical fitness
Again, true, but the bravado is mainly shown on the ground, in boyish comradre, not jostling for top position in the air...

When playing WCP I end up feeling like I'm in a kids play ground playing football not fighting a battle.


 

Read all of those WC novels, there are some chatter during it (of course, most of these FS guys didn't read the books; you appear to be one of those). In addition, fighters can communicate by secure laser link, so it doesn't mean that everything they say will be picked up on the command net.

If you didn't notice... laser link was something that wasn't mentioned in the games and no, I haven't read the novels, I'm weighing up gameplay here
You have validity in the point but just how much chatter are you talking about?
FS2 mission chatters, for decently populated missions, is busy enough as it is, playing the busier Coop missions (Rebels Bluff, Touch of Fate, Robin Hood, etc) you barely get a moment without chatter and that's all stuff that's directed at you alone...
Is that going to mean that you're going to be asking for overlapping chatter? because if it really is a constant droning noise which is what WCP chatter in an FS2 environment will most likely be from your perspective, it'll eventually ware even you guys out.

And last, in response to your  "less chatter makes you disciplined" I can say that there are 4-5 members of the Saga Team who are military (both US and European), but they don't ever strut their credentials in public ever, for they don't want to attract attention to themselves, and by doing that they are professionals: they keep their off-time different from their other work

Again, I mainly refer to my team experiences in various computer games, and sports.

People are always performing at their best when they are least needing to provide socialesque cues to their colleges, because it focuses the mind in so much when Squads can work in the total confidence that they know their mates well enough to know how to connect on the end of one of their plays.

I don't really think I need to address most of the other replies after this.

[StratComm]

Wow.  He said typing.  Typing would obviously be a no-no if you're using both your hands to control whatever it is that you're driving.  Cars don't have keyboards in them, why? Because it is wholey incompatible with controlled driving.  I'm sure that no aircraft or spacecraft would ever use typing as a primary avenue for comms in a combat situation.  QD is talking about what it's like to play an online game, multiplayer, with people he knows.  When you don't get killed when your fighter explodes, yes, you can go it alone.  But what everyone else is talking about is a singleplayer scenario, where otherwise it feels like you are flying with drones.  Having comms on an open channel would at least add some legitimacy to the claim that FS fighters are flown by humans in the game.  It can be overdone, and if anyone impliments the fill-in-the-blank chatter crap that was Freelancer, I'll personally hunt them down.  But some combat chatter is more than appropriate.

And while we're at it, lets talk sports.  I'm going to use basketball as an example.  If a team doesn't talk, a team doesn't win.  If a player has an open shot, he calls "ball!" so that his teammates can take advantage of him being open.  Or "look" and a point if a player doesn't see a screen.  The old "there is no 'I' in team" bit, you know.  A well-disciplined, communicating team will beat the hot-shot ball-hogs any day.  The same applies to wingmen in a combat scenario, only they are playing with their lives.  Pretty good reason to make sure your wingmates know what your doing and when you're in trouble.

[Skippy]

Originally posted by StratComm
Wow.  He said typing.  I'm sure that no aircraft or spacecraft would ever use typing as a primary avenue for comms in a combat situation.  QD is talking about what it's like to play an online game, multiplayer, with people he knows.  When you don't get killed when your fighter explodes, yes, you can go it alone.  But what everyone else is talking about is a singleplayer scenario, where otherwise it feels like you are flying with drones.  Having comms on an open channel would at least add some legitimacy to the claim that FS fighters are flown by humans in the game.  It can be overdone, and if anyone impliments the fill-in-the-blank chatter crap that was Freelancer, I'll personally hunt them down.  But some combat chatter is more than appropriate.

Exactly

[StratComm]

Well I should know better than editing that much.  Guess I'm busted

[Tolwyn]

Originally posted by StratComm
Wow.  He said typing.  Typing would obviously be a no-no if you're using both your hands to control whatever it is that you're driving.  Cars don't have keyboards in them, why? Because it is wholey incompatible with controlled driving.  I'm sure that no aircraft or spacecraft would ever use typing as a primary avenue for comms in a combat situation.  QD is talking about what it's like to play an online game, multiplayer, with people he knows.  When you don't get killed when your fighter explodes, yes, you can go it alone.  But what everyone else is talking about is a singleplayer scenario, where otherwise it feels like you are flying with drones.  Having comms on an open channel would at least add some legitimacy to the claim that FS fighters are flown by humans in the game.  It can be overdone, and if anyone impliments the fill-in-the-blank chatter crap that was Freelancer, I'll personally hunt them down.  But some combat chatter is more than appropriate.

And while we're at it, lets talk sports.  I'm going to use basketball as an example.  If a team doesn't talk, a team doesn't win.  If a player has an open shot, he calls "ball!" so that his teammates can take advantage of him being open.  Or "look" and a point if a player doesn't see a screen.  The old "there is no 'I' in team" bit, you know.  A well-disciplined, communicating team will beat the hot-shot ball-hogs any day.  The same applies to wingmen in a combat scenario, only they are playing with their lives.  Pretty good reason to make sure your wingmates know what your doing and when you're in trouble.

wow, I have started working on a write off, but after reading this I think it is no longer needed

QD, what the hell are you talking about? Is it the way you play online games with your 'team'? This *is not* of our concern.

[QuantumDelta]

Just telling you how the professionals do it;

It's not quite the ball hogging dealio Stratcomm, though most of what you said, probably presented their argument as best possible

-- It was mostly, concentrating in FS2 and being spacially aware of absolutely everything around you at the same time whilst still being able to predict your enemy, and your friendlies movements, being able to manipulate your way through that movement and do so letting your team mate know what you are doing if you need to ask for help in an FS2 type mission you've already lost to be honest...

I also mentioned voice, because plenty of us have voice activated comms in clans and squads.
Even in 100 vs 100 person battle in Neocron (The MMORPG I've been playing for the last two years) the teams that work and win most, are those that require the least communications, because they all know what they are doing, they all know what their team mates are doing, and they all work together on a concious and subconcious level.

[Tolwyn]

oh yes, you are surely a professional

As I stated earlier,  there are 4-5 members of the Saga Team who are military (both US and European), but they don't ever strut their credentials in public ever, for they don't want to attract attention to themselves, and by doing that they are professionals: they keep their off-time different from their other work. (And now compare it to the way you act. All I can say: 'you are amsuing')

Clear? Or shall I post it again... and again.

[QuantumDelta]

Duel me, then hopefully you will see what I mean by that comment.

Better yet, lets have a 2v2, and I'll show you what I was talking about teamwork.

[Skippy]

You're talking about professionnal gaming, but that's not the point of that discussion...

[Lynx]

Originally posted by QuantumDelta
Duel me, then hopefully you will see what I mean by that comment.

Better yet, lets have a 2v2, and I'll show you what I was talking about teamwork.

Why are keep mentioning that. It doesn't have any connection with anything remotely important in that thread.

It's like you are saying ,"My d1ck is bigger than yours, let's compare!!"

Stop your inane rambling.

[Flipside]

All I'll say is this, I remember just how much atmosphere it added to Homeworld to watch the battles and hear...

'lining up for attack'
'Uhh... command.... this isn't looking good'
etc.

It gave you a feel of really being 'there'. Battle chatter would be great to see (ok, ok hear, though I'd appreciate the volume being seperate from the 'main' voice volume, so people are able to turn down one without affecting the other?

I'm not getting involved in the whole WC thing, but whether WC existed or not, can we have battle chatter like in Homeworld?

[gevatter Lars]

Well well...seams as if something isn't clear to you QuantumDeltaSerpentiswhateveryournameis....

So lets get something clear befor this flameing...what many people like to call this kind of behavior goes on.


WC Saga is at the moment a singleplayer game.
We intend to include a multiplayer part, but that its not the thing we are talking about ATM.
So don't be troubled about any to much voices during the missions.
The chatter between the mission makes sence. For excample during long patrols its something helpfull. Also can you develop the story with some chatter during the missions...remeber this is still singleplayer...there is no other person (read living beeing that talks with you) within the missions. Only you....maybe you are paranoid or something...people intend to hear strange voices you know? Maybe thats the reason why you thing that there is to much chatter...you talk to yourself.
But even if that isn't the case and I am quite sure that it isn't, still I sometimes talk to myself...but the voices allways telling me that it is ok.

öhm...well..lost myself...where was I...ah yes.

Wing Commander Saga is a singleplayer game. We use chatter between the importend parts as part of story developing and as quick information for the pilot that the mission directives has been changed and other realy importend things...like your carrier blows up and the comofficer just want to let know in case you don't notice it....baka ^_^
For the real fightingaction the coms are not so that you fly while are forced to listen to someone reading the bible in the background or listen to any budist chantings.
Mostly we reduce it to the neseccary...but still you can use some other voiceovers.
Special when you want to simulate larger groups of fighters and or battlegroups. Then it is very nice to have the possibility to have some chatter in the background that supports the atmosphere of the game....remeber this is a game...you won't get a medal when you win it.

So trust us when we say we need some little changes. Our quality department will make sure that it all makes sence and their is no illogical or unneseccary chating.

PS@QD:
THIS IS NOT A MMORPG or CLANBATTLE ITS SINGLEPLAYER

PPS@all other
Sorry that I have written so big...didn't want to hurt your eyes with it ^_^