[Baron MacDoblin]

*COUGH*

Gameranking:
WC:P -> (Overall rank; 1009) (PC Rank; 322)
FS2 -> (Overall rank; 127) (PC rank; 23)

Even AVault agrees;
WC:P -> 2 1/2 stars out of 5
FS2; -> 4 1/2 stars out of 5

Well, if you want to track down internet ratings, I'm more than happy to oblidge you here.

Mobygames
Prophecy:  3.8 (out of 5)
Freespace: 3.9 (out of 5)

Gamespot:
Prophecy   8.6
Freespace    8.9

PC Gamer(US)
Prophecy:    88%
Freespace:    90%

Admitedly, Freespace is ranked slightly higher in each instance- but nobody I know is going to commit hara-kiri over a few decimal points.

To be perfectly honest, Prophecy really isn't my favorite of the series; there are plenty of other choices - Vengence of the Kilrathi, The Price of Freedom, Privateer, as well as a series of novelizations, an animated series, and a full-fledged movie, even if the latter wasn't exactly well-received. You need to understand Wing Commander is not simply a game; it is a full-fledged universe and a franchise. Could Freespace have evolved into that, given the chance? Perhaps; we'll probably never know.

In any case, I don't know about you, but I don't exactly see any reason for jealosy.

]I dunno, though - any feuding between communities of the same genre, after this many years, just seems to be a bit...petty.  But then again, who expected logic on the internet?

Internet maturity is an oxymoron.

[Baron MacDoblin]

Originally posted by Singh
What would be most ironic would be that we ending fighting Mr. Smart together, defeating him and then working together to somehow make a WC-FS2 crossover that kicked ass and was declared the next bit in the WC/FS series timeline.
 

I have to give Mr. Mr. Mr. Dr. Smart the XXX this: I have never, ever seen a figure so universally despised in my internet travails (and that includes Hitler and Osama bin Laden).

[Tiara]

You just posted a rating from gamespot that's not correct;

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/sim/freespace2/review.html

It's a 9.6, NOT 8.9

Also, PC gamer gives a 93% not 90%

Here's a list with review results (including PC gamer);

Code: [Select]

Site Profile  GameSpot
9.4 out of 10
94.0%

Site Profile  IGN
8.9 out of 10
89.0%

Site Profile  Gamespy
10/10/1999
92 out of 100
92.0%

Site Profile  Computer Gaming World  
1/22/2000
4.5 out of 5
90.0%

Site Profile  PC Gamer
93 out of 100
93.0%

Site Profile  Avault
11/11/1999
4.5 out of 5
90.0%

Site Profile  Game Rankings
97 out of 100
97.0%

Site Profile  Game Revolution
A-
90.0%

Site Profile  Gameguru Mania
4 out of 5
80.0%

Site Profile  Eurogamer
7 out of 10
70.0%
http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/188670.asp

Also, on that same site;
- Avg Ratio:  81% (WC:P)
- Avg Ratio:  90% (FS2)

9% is not a very small difference.

I'm sorry, but because you post wrong numbers i'm not really gonna trust anything you say. I don't like people give false info.

Just for the record; I'm not claiming that WC is a bad game, i like it I just don't overrate it.

[Nico]

Originally posted by Setekh
Both of you, please read my thread at the top of Hard Light. You are both on the same side here, lay off each other for a while.

Sorry but no ( it has nothing to do with Smart anyway ).
Claiming that FS2 is the reason why space sim genre downed is way too much of a strecht. Saying that FS2 is a clone of WC:P ( oh, they don't say that? No need to read far, just check LOAF's post again. I've checked the CIC for years unlike what you might think, I'm not pulling facts out of my ass ) when FS1 went out before, is a joke. But that I don't care, it's an opinion, all games suffer from that kind of comparison.
The costum thing was a hint. I have nothing against people dressing however they want ( hell, I go to anime conventions, I sure know what cosplay is ), but as I said, I check the CIC on a dayly ( yup ) basis, and if I believe what you, MacDob, and then what the CIC news show, DragonCon would be all year long. As I said, I don't give a damn, but on that regard, I'm NOT gonna accept being called a, I quote, "rabbid fanfoy" by such people.
For the ratings, I live in Europe, and I have internet too, and I've NEVER seen anywhere ( save for WC fansites of course... ) a place where WC:P wasn't compared defavorably to FS2.
As for that Navy anthem thing, I don't know, I don't understand, but I can't see how you can give me an excuse for that kind of behaviour w/o being ashamed. I'd be ****ing ashamed if a HLP dude started burning WC copies ( well, I'd hate him, coz I love Wing Commander too, mind you, I've even done a couple mods for Secret Ops, tho I never released them ), or even a game I don't like. Coz, for a start, it's wasted money.
I don't want to start a flamewar either, I let them do it alone, but when I read the cascade of critics from LOAF, how much he hates FS2 and all, and then, in the last line, claims on the behalf of all the WC community how much he feels for us, well, that kindda runs on my nerves, sorry.

[Nico]

Originally posted by Baron MacDoblin
You need to understand Wing Commander is not simply a game; it is a full-fledged universe and a franchise. Could Freespace have evolved into that, given the chance? Perhaps; we'll probably never know.  

Doubt it, freespace is more of a collection of moments and unreachable characters, it doesn't have any really developed background like wing commander has, neither it has the same fanbase anyway.

[Baron MacDoblin]

You just posted a rating from gamespot that's not correct;

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/sim/freespace2/review.html

It's a 9.6, NOT 8.9

I'm sorry, but because you post wrong numbers i'm not really gonna trust anything you say. I don't like people give false info.

If you had read my original post more carefully, you would have seen that I was comparing the ORIGINAL Freespace to Prophecy, not Freespace 2

And yes, I realize that your original post compared FS2 to Prophecy, but in my opinion, that 9% can be attributed mostly to the graphical improvements made, and partly to the fact that no other space sims of comparable stature had been released in that timeframe. In other words, a way of showing FS2 is a refined version of FS. Besides, if Freespace is so superior, why do magazines and books such as High Score! continue to mention Wing Commander?

The point still stands; the WC CIC does not suffer from some sort of inferiority complex; the vast majority care little about Freespace. If anything, I sometimes feel it's the opposite.

Claiming that FS2 is the reason why space sim genre downed is way too much of a strecht.

I don't think it's much of a stretch of all. Let me quote LOAF (yes, your great foe):

From an industry perspective, Freespace 2 was treated by EA (and Lucas, and presumably other companys) as 'the game to compete with'. Proposals for things like Privateer Online (etc.) were written entirely from the "this is better than Freespace 2 because..." perspective. The last two 'important' games to come out sold fairly well (not amazingly - but high six figure numbers), and the corporate types were watching FS2 to get a read on the next generation of space sims. FS2 also promised to do a lot of the things Prophecy didn't - specifically, the multiplayer stuff - so everyone looked to it for an indicator of how much WCP's sales were hurt by lack of multiplayer.

...and then it sold around 20,000 copies. That's *nothing* for large companies like EA and Lucas (both of whom immediately killed their big space sim games). (Yes, StarLancer and Tachyon came out soon after and had similarly low numbrs... but Freespace 2 was the first, and it was the one everyone had been treating as the game to beat...)

(for the record, my understanding here is that FS2 later sold around from 40,000 to 80,000 copies - which is relatively better, but it's still a pittance compared to Sims 2: Big Pimpin')

As for that Navy anthem thing, I don't know, I don't understand, but I can't see how you can give me an excuse for that kind of behaviour w/o being ashamed. I'd be ****ing ashamed if a HLP dude started burning WC copies ( well, I'd hate him, coz I love Wing Commander too, mind you, I've even done a couple mods for Secret Ops, tho I never released them ), or even a game I don't like. Coz, for a start, it's wasted money.

They're just boxes; I don't see the reason to get riled up about it. It's not like you're somehow disfiguring its very soul, and besides, there are plenty of copies to go around. I'm not going to think very highly of someone who goes around burning WC discs, but I'm not going to declare some kind of freaking Jihad, either.

The costum thing was a hint. I have nothing against people dressing however they want ( hell, I go to anime conventions, I sure know what cosplay is  ), but as I said, I check the CIC on a dayly ( yup ) basis, and if I believe what you, MacDob, and then what the CIC news show, DragonCon would be all year long.

A quick search of the CIC news disproves your assertion, as a grand total of 20 entries have mentioned Freespace over the past six months - the vast majority of them pertaining to Wing Commander Saga.

I don't want to start a flamewar either, I let them do it alone, but when I read the cascade of critics from LOAF, how much he hates FS2 and all, and then, in the last line, claims on the behalf of all the WC community how much he feels for us, well, that kindda runs on my nerves, sorry.

I know LOAF pretty well, and while I can say that his dislike for FS is genuine, I'm also pretty confident most of the jibes stem from his love of irony.

[Sigma957]

FS2 and WC are too entirely different games, each with a different story. I enjoy FS2 more because too me its more fun to play and being part of a modding team its even more enjoyable seeing what I've done in game.

[karajorma]

I'm not going to get into a WC:P vs Freespace arguement because next to no one in the Freespace community cares.

I own both games and play them both. I happen to like Freespace better. If someone likes Wing Commander better so be it.

Slagging off Freespace now as many of the Wing Commander fans do isn't a good idea though. It just results in outsiders seeing the flaws in both games, damaging the reputation of both games.

Completely pointless really.

[Gloriano]

Originally posted by karajorma
I'm not going to get into a WC:P vs Freespace arguement because next to no one in the Freespace community cares.

I own both games and play them both. I happen to like Freespace better. If someone likes Wing Commander better so be it.

Slagging off Freespace now as many of the Wing Commander fans do isn't a good idea though. It just results in outsiders seeing the flaws in both games, damaging the reputation of both games.

Completely pointless really.

Agreed:)

[Tiara]

Originally posted by karajorma
I'm not going to get into a WC:P vs Freespace arguement because next to no one in the Freespace community cares.

I own both games and play them both. I happen to like Freespace better. If someone likes Wing Commander better so be it.

Slagging off Freespace now as many of the Wing Commander fans do isn't a good idea though. It just results in outsiders seeing the flaws in both games, damaging the reputation of both games.

Completely pointless really.

yeah, guess you're right

*smacks Karajorma across the head*

You can't be right!

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by karajorma
I'm not going to get into a WC:P vs Freespace arguement because next to no one in the Freespace community cares.

I own both games and play them both. I happen to like Freespace better. If someone likes Wing Commander better so be it.

Slagging off Freespace now as many of the Wing Commander fans do isn't a good idea though. It just results in outsiders seeing the flaws in both games, damaging the reputation of both games.

Completely pointless really.

Well put.

I never played WingCo, really - I never had the 'right' PC when the games were released.  I did have Privateer (1) though.... that kicked arse, even though I never actually did anything beyond trade & buy new ships.

[Baron MacDoblin]

Originally posted by aldo_14
I never played WingCo, really - I never had the 'right' PC when the games were released.  I did have Privateer (1) though.... that kicked arse, even though I never actually did anything beyond trade & buy new ships.

Dude, you could run Wing Commander II on a 486/66 ... it'd be sad if you couldn't run it now

Also, play Privateer: The Reckoning for Freelancer

[Tiara]

Originally posted by Baron MacDoblin


Dude, you could run Wing Commander II on a 486/66 ... it'd be sad if you couldn't run it now

Some PCs are too fast to run old games. Especially if they are even playable on a 486.

[Baron MacDoblin]

Moslo is your friend

[Singh]

I want to post a response directly to Mr. Smart in that other thread......but im not sure if it is directly appropriate. It's not a flame, more like an open letter than anything else.

Ah what the heck.

*gets typing.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Baron MacDoblin


Dude, you could run Wing Commander II on a 486/66 ... it'd be sad if you couldn't run it now

Also, play Privateer: The Reckoning for Freelancer

Actually, I had bought WingCo 1&2 for my old 486-DX/2 66 (woot!).  But they just wouldn't run atall when I tried.

Supossedly there's a WC mod for UT2004 in the works.  Might take a peek at that  one day.

[kv1at3485]

Originally posted by Baron MacDoblin
Moslo is your friend

You could also give DosBox a try, but even I have difficulty using it.

[kasperl]

DosBox is quite nice, for the slower DOS apps.

[Nico]

A quick search of the CIC news disproves your assertion, as a grand total of 20 entries have mentioned Freespace over the past six months - the vast majority of them pertaining to Wing Commander Saga.

What? I'm talking about the fact that there's at least a news every month with a guy parading in fed uniform, and you tell me I'm wrong coz there's 20 entries about FS2?
Oooh, I was so wasting my time, so, as for the rest: whatever you say, you're making no sense to me.
I'll just point out that I have nothing against LOAF ( did you read any critic from me directed at him? I just pointed out what he said, I don't consider him my great foe, but if you like to make everything sound big, whatever ), I just say I don't want his fake concerns.

[Setekh]

C'mon, guys, you're above this. I told you to stop, not because it's not a valid thing to discuss and not because the wrongs you are pointing at each other are untrue; but because now is a horrible time to discuss such a topic. It is helping no one, and it is damaging us all. Stop.