[Swamp_Thing]

ALERT! ALERT! N00bie ALERT!


I sure had hoped my first post here wasn´t a n00bie alert, but allás i couldn´t help it.
First and foremost, i have to say that i´m raging mad i hadn´t found out about all this wback then when i started playing FS2.
It wasn´t untill i got my CDs out of the dust ridden closet and started playing again, that i found out about all this work, and this small in number but rich in essence community. I´ve tried a few MODS and campaigns, mainly Inferno, and i just loved it.
, i loved it so much that i started thinking about making a couple missions of my own!
The thing is, i always wanted to learn 3D modelling, and i took up this oportunity to do so.
And so i did. I made a fighter model. It doesn´t look too bad. But now i have to texture it, and that´s where things took a turn for the worst! I just don´t know how!!!
I read the tutorials at VolitionWatch, but the things i was after weren´t in there.
So, my question is:
Are there any step-by-step tutorials of model texturing and UV mapping out there? Where?
I´m using mainly Truespace 6, Paint Shop Pro 7, and i have also 3D Studio Max, but i don´t knnow how to handle on that one. So i would like some tutorials written for Truespace, if at all possible.
The manual that came with Truespace is lacking a whole lot, and assumes the user to be experienced, wich i´m not.

I need to know how to make UV maps, how to fit textures, how to import and apply textures in Truespace, done the easiest and simplest way possible.

Thanks for all the help, and keep up the hard work.

[jdjtcagle]

http://underworld.fortunecity.com/pacman/106/fs2mods/shipcreationguide/

Go to the UV part

[Taristin]

Where's your manners?

[jdjtcagle]

Oh poo, I forgot...

Welcome to HLP...
Exits are to the sides and rear. Water guns are under the seats for what they're worth. One or two might even have holy water. If you encounter any Shivans while crawling in the air ducts, hopefully it's only Carl. Give him your lunch and hope he doesn't kill you with his fusion-cannon-thingy. Plasma rifles are located in the lockers up front. However, these can only be opened by [V], God, an Admin, or a hyperintelligent shade of the color blue. Do not try to enter the control room as it is guarded by Claymore mines. Thank you, and enjoy your stay!

[Swamp_Thing]

Thanks for the warm welcome.
And for that link. It was usefull, allthough it did not answer some lingering questions.
I have been reading everything i could find available on the net, but it seems this particular issue has been neglected.
The thing is, i already know how to model and how to make textures, but this damn UV maps are escaping me...
My problem is this.
I have this model, wich i painted grey at first. Then i painted particular parts of the model using diferent colours,giving then a "material ID" so that i could texture them in separate. Then i use the UV cylindrical mapping gizmo, wich gives this window where i can see each individual component of the model. But this is where it gets crazy!!!
The components are all overlapping, on top of each other! And if i start moving them around, they stretch and shrink, and rotate, and then the texture won´t ever fit the right place in the model again!!! Isn´t there an easier way?
And how am i supposed to fit all those components into one 256x256 square??? Or can i use more than one texture map per model?


After the texture is painted onto the various template components, do i cut and paste them onto a fresh map? Can i "shrink" them to fit them all? Or do i need to leave them just as they were innitially mapped onto the template?

I hope this is making some sense for you guys...
..because it doesn´t to me.


PS: Is it just me or does Truespace come with a wacky sense of icon placement? I ´ve never seen an interface this confusing, i have to be constantly searching for the damn icons to press!! There is no way to keep a tidy workplace with it...

[magatsu1]

yeah, TS is "context sensertive" It's like sending a text message with a phone that tries to guess the word you're "typing"

There's an option to have all icons open all the time, try that 'till you get used to it.

what are you texturing BTW ? a fighter, or something bigger ?

[Swamp_Thing]

I´m trying to texture a couple of fighter models. Today i finally found how to work the damn UV maps (finally), but i´m still at a loss as to how i fit all the components into one texture square...
I guess i have to go on with  the "trial and error" strategy.


Btw, what´s that option to keep all icons open again? Is it the "search icon" option? If that´s what you mean, it doesn´t open ALL icons, only the main ones.


Well... I just found a couple weird bugs in Truespace 6.5!!!
Does anyone have that version, so that i can compare with my settings?
The bugs are:

a)When trying to make a space scene (or any other scene), if i try to place a texture in the background, it doesn´t work! Or better yet, sometimes it does, but i´ll be damned if i know why that is! And when i finally get it to work, all the textures from the objects disappear!! It goes back to the default colour, and you can´t apply any textures at all, only flat colours.

b) The second bug, is related to the first, i believe.  When trying to texture an object, it remains on default colour. If i click "render", the texture appears, but as soon as the mouse pointer enters the workspace, it vanishes again!!!
I believe this one has something to do with the first, because i can´t get the display settings back to default, meaning that the background texture name is still in the "display settings" menu. No button to clear it.

To be honest, i´m not at all convinced by Truespace. It´s got a hard learning curve, a wacky interface, a few bugs, and it doesn´t do anything out of the ordinary that most  3D free/shareware packages do.  I think i´ll try Rhino instead.

[Black Wolf]

Try 3ds Max. It's really easy to learn, and I think has the biggest number of users around here, and a crapload of tuts.

[Atalhlla]

I think the majority of people here do not use TrueSpace Anything to model.  Quite frankly, I only use it to set up the hierarchy and make sure I have the right textures in place.  Everything else, modeling, UV Mapping, is done in another program, then exported to a format TS can read.  I'm the weirdo here who uses that odd little program otherwise known as Carrara 3D studio.  Most use 3ds, which is what I export my models too when going from Carrara to TS.

I myself have gotten used to TS's interface to a degree.  I can move around the world, paste shaders on objects, and move things around the hierarchy (curtesy (sp?) of TrueView)

Uh, hope that helped in some way...

[karajorma]

Not true. There are quite a few TS modellers here, myself included.

As I've said before since TS 3.2 and GMax are both completely free you might as well try out both and decide for yourself which you find easiest to work with.

[magatsu1]

a poll may be inorder here...

[GT-Keravnos]

http://discovery.scifi-art.com/texturing/index.html

for 3dsmax...

and...

about 100+ Photoshop tutorials concerning EVERYTHING...

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=129189

Enjoy!

[Swamp_Thing]

Originally posted by GT-Keravnos
http://discovery.scifi-art.com/texturing/index.html
for 3dsmax...
Enjoy!

Ahh, allás i had already been through those links, during my wanderings on the net. Can´t say i found much of anything, aside from many dead links. Most good tutorials are in paying and registering sites, wich is a real bummer.
I do have 3D Studio Max, two versions of it, ! I have R3 and the latest 3DS 6.0,  but i find it hard to learn, as it´s not as intuitive as TS. I also have AutoCad 2000, and used to have Gmax. In short, i have the whole lot of them!! But not much use for them...
TS does have a few cool features, like the "Add Subdivision Layer", wich can smooth the model all by itself (at the expense of way too many polys). The primitives are nice, with the ring tool being very easy and fun to use.
I´m still scatching the surface here, as i´m sure there are a lot of other good features hidden under that messy interface. But we can´t have it all, can we?


Btw, i wanted to ask something about the scale of models, for use in FS2. How big do the models have to be? How many grid units? I heard something about the FS engine multiplying it by 20, or something...?
And speaking of grids, does anyone know how you can place a grid on the side and back views aswell? I only get a single horizontal line across the viewport, but a vertical grid is really important. Any ideas?

[ShadowPuppet]

If you are trying to get to grips with UV mapping, you might want to check out Lithunwrap.

There is a link to the old free version on the ship creating page. It's quite simple to follow through and a lot friendlier than some of the mapping tools that come attached to modellers.

A few basics though, which might help!

A UV map is simply there to tell the final renderer where to get it's texture from. You can have more than one texture, and each texture has it's own 'map' that tells it where every single polygon using that material will get it's texture from.

Lithunwrap allows you to easily assign a particular polygon to a material. Then you need to lay out the polygons onto each texture.

IPA's tutorial goes through that in quite a bit of detail, using Lithunwrap. IF you get stuck going through it, feel free to PM me with specifics UV mapping is a bit tricky to get your head round ( especially if you have been used to applying just a material to a polygon and usingthe modellers built in texture library to give the effect you want ) UV mapping is, however, a useful skill to master

[aldo_14]

Use max - it may seem tricky to learn at first, but the mapping you'll get is a million times better than with lithunwrap.... Check the max help files for the low poly modelling tutorials, that should explain box modelling very well.   Remember - you only need to actually learn 2 or 3 things to model a ship - make a box, select a face, extrude, move a vertice, weld.  That's pretty much it.

[magatsu1]

I find the easiest way to check scale is to either load a V model to truespace or do a quick table hack, save your converted model to Gams/FS/data/models and compaire 'em in FRED.

[CainFortea]

Hmm, that LithiumUnwrap tutorial didn't help me at all.  I've got turrets at odd angles, and I can't get a UV map so that ALL the turrets are maped the same.  They are all exactly the same geometry, simply at odd angles from the hull.  ASCII art time.

Ignore the periods...need them just to space it out right.

              ..______
             /..........\
             \______/

Thats about the shape of my hull, from the FRONT perspective.  I've got turrets on all six sides, (actually there are 2 other angles, so 8 angles total) but when I try to make a UVmap, the ones on the odd angles are viewed from the top.  I've tried from other axis, but they're not on axis angles.  I want to have all my turrets (except one) use the exact same map, is there anyway any of you know how I can make that happen?  

I have to use Lithium to do my texturing, because TrueSpace 3.2 wont add new textures.  ::Shakes his fist at TS::

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by CainFortea
Hmm, that LithiumUnwrap tutorial didn't help me at all.  I've got turrets at odd angles, and I can't get a UV map so that ALL the turrets are maped the same.  They are all exactly the same geometry, simply at odd angles from the hull.  ASCII art time.

Ignore the periods...need them just to space it out right.

              ..______
             /..........\
             \______/

Thats about the shape of my hull, from the FRONT perspective.  I've got turrets on all six sides, (actually there are 2 other angles, so 8 angles total) but when I try to make a UVmap, the ones on the odd angles are viewed from the top.  I've tried from other axis, but they're not on axis angles.  I want to have all my turrets (except one) use the exact same map, is there anyway any of you know how I can make that happen?  

I have to use Lithium to do my texturing, because TrueSpace 3.2 wont add new textures.  ::Shakes his fist at TS::

Map the turrets seperately from the ship and add 'em into the TS scene independently.