Author Topic: FSDoc Updates/Suggestions  (Read 78471 times)

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Offline Lonestar

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FSDoc Updates/Suggestions
Hello All,

This post is in regards to the FS Doc, of which I'm the new administrator for.  :)
http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/~freespace/fsdoc/

I would like to gather some opinions and suggestions about the FS Doc from all HLP'ers to make the FS Doc experience easier and more intuitive for all who are concerned.
This doesn't mean all requests will be honored, rather they will be considered seriously and added if not detrimental to any other aspects of the FS Doc program.

You may contact me via ICQ or MSN located in my profile or post it here. Try to be as specific as you can, even provide links and examples of what your talking about so we can get through it as quickly as possible.

Thanks in advance for the help! :)

Also post any content addition you think are required either by quoting the new content, or linking to it.

 

Offline karajorma

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FSDoc Updates/Suggestions
Fix the line width.

It makes the whole thing practically unreadable. It used to be set to something sensible but now it wraps at about 80 characters.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline Sandwich

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FSDoc Updates/Suggestions
In regards to the line width, I changed that to be that width. I'll explain why, and then leave it up to you all to decide what to do.

Look at any major or semi-major news site. They all have the text columns relatively narrow. The reason is that the eye has trouble traversing the width of todays screens from the end of one line to the beginning of the next without losing it's place. So especially in sites with lots and lots of nothing but text (forums don't qualify, as you have the breaks between posts, which help tremendously), the line width needs to be kept small.

Now the problem with specifying a line width is that the crappy IE browser doesn't allow a flexible min-width / max-width to be set. One unchanging width is all IE will support, and that needs to be narrower than not, because if it is set too wide, people with narrow screens would have to scroll left-right with every line if the text went beyond the screen width - a major no-no.

Thus, the easy-to-read narrow columns in all of today's major news sites.

So... now that you are armed with the same information, reasoning, and logic that I made the decision on - your choice. :)
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Lonestar

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FSDoc Updates/Suggestions
At 800x600 Resolution the FSDOC fits fine, although the table width could be slightly larger its not too small. With different resolution sizes on the internet and a majority still being 800x600, im forced to design the wiki with that in mind.

It may be set wider, but dont expect a dramatic increase. My guess is that it seems far to small to you because your resolution is higher then 1024 x 768, if that is in fact the case try resizing your resolution to be a bit smaller to read the FS Doc Easier.

I could also use percentages but this is dependant on the current template which i havent looked at entirely. Ill do my best to make it bigger but i must appease the majority of surfers first.

 

Offline Tiara

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FSDoc Updates/Suggestions
Suggestion; Make a mirror to the latest patch that actually works. Currently the patch is linked to www.freespace2.com which has been down for some time.

:)
I AM GOD! AND I SHALL SMITE THEE!



...because I can :drevil:

 

Offline Nuke

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FSDoc Updates/Suggestions
my bigest concern is that too few people are adding to it. also alot of descriptions for things seem inacurate. id also rather programers list instructions for new features there instead of in the forums. alot of people will cut and paste and thats fine. its just if someone sumerizes for a programer they may simply leave out important details. other than that it was a pretty good idea to have it the way it is.
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Nuke's Scripting SVN

 

Offline Lonestar

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FSDoc Updates/Suggestions
Quote
Originally posted by Nuke
my bigest concern is that too few people are adding to it. also alot of descriptions for things seem inacurate. id also rather programers list instructions for new features there instead of in the forums. alot of people will cut and paste and thats fine. its just if someone sumerizes for a programer they may simply leave out important details. other than that it was a pretty good idea to have it the way it is.


Hmmm, any ideas as to how to make people more interested in posting stuff in the FS Doc? Is it too hard to login? Registration problems? Maybe forum user integration would be useful so you dont need to remember an extra login?

 
FSDoc Updates/Suggestions
Toss the bloody wikiword loginname requirement. That'll save you a lot of problems already.
More forum intergration would be great, though.

Can we switch from [ link ] to [[ link ]] ? It makes ordinary texts a lot easier, and there are other things that use straight brackets. Double brackets, wikipedia style, are easier, IMHO.

(Yes, it'll cause a lot of work, but a single "link changer" should be able to do that, right?
just another newbie without any modding, FREDding or real programming experience

you haven't learned masochism until you've tried to read a Microsoft help file.  -- Goober5000
I've got 2 drug-addict syblings and one alcoholic whore. And I'm a ****ing sociopath --an0n
You cannot defeat Windows through strength alone. Only patience, a lot of good luck, and a sledgehammer will do the job. --StratComm

 

Offline Nuke

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FSDoc Updates/Suggestions
Quote
Originally posted by Lonestar
Hmmm, any ideas as to how to make people more interested in posting stuff in the FS Doc?


how about avatars for people who add to it. or make an entry add to thei post count. its kinda hard to make people want to take the time to add something. if adding to the wiki increases one's status in the comunity it might be enough to make them use it.

Quote

Is it too hard to login? Registration problems?


it was abit trickey the first time i used it, i had to get help. it was just me not interpreting the instructions properly. it all came down to me not knowing what a wiki word was.

Quote

Maybe forum user integration would be useful so you dont need to remember an extra login?


it would be nice. if it would make adding to the wiki no different than posting on the forum.
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Nuke's Scripting SVN

 

Offline Sandwich

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FSDoc Updates/Suggestions
Quote
Originally posted by Lonestar
At 800x600 Resolution the FSDOC fits fine, although the table width could be slightly larger its not too small. With different resolution sizes on the internet and a majority still being 800x600, im forced to design the wiki with that in mind.


It's actually set to fit in a 640x480 window, but I'd be surprised if any of us still use that resolution.
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 

Offline Lonestar

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FSDoc Updates/Suggestions
I dont go that low in resolution to check websites, considering no one uses that low a resolution. Ok maybe a small percentage does, if they do they deserve side scroller bars!

 

Offline Cyker

  • 28
FSDoc Updates/Suggestions
Why make it screen-size specific?

Design it so it scales!

My challenge to you now is to make it so I can read it comfortably in Opera on an 800x600 screen and comfortably in NetFront on a 320x480 screen :p

Oh, and in Lynx on an 80x25 character screen :D

 

Offline Lonestar

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FSDoc Updates/Suggestions
Quote
Originally posted by Cyker
Why make it screen-size specific?

Design it so it scales!

My challenge to you now is to make it so I can read it comfortably in Opera on an 800x600 screen and comfortably in NetFront on a 320x480 screen :p

Oh, and in Lynx on an 80x25 character screen :D


:eek2:

I could design for the three or four seperate platforms, and use a javascript to detect your browser and settings and then redirect you to the proper pages for your screen size.

Are their any serious browser issues to report besides the size of the content displayed? If not i dont think ill be setting the wiki up for 80x25 anytime soon. Maybe a downloadable Scaleable wiki doc, based on the DB Backup of the Wiki system. So if something is added to the wiki you simply download your desired document and sizes for  quick local reference.

 

Offline Eishtmo

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FSDoc Updates/Suggestions
I think the big issue is what information is actually put into the thing.  Most people look at it and go "hey, that's pretty cool," but that's it.  They don't know what specific information needs to be put in the thing.  If a list of wanted information is put up, perhaps it would make it build up quicker.  I know, the idea is for it to grow as people come up with new information, but you have to start somewhere.

I suggest starting with the cold, vanilla Freespace information that I started (and stopped due to lack of time, energy and interest) some time ago.  Litterally rip the information straight from the tables and post it (with explinations and the like).  From there, we move on to modding, Freding, etc, etc.

The wiki login is confusing as well.  Took me forever to figure it out.
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---------

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Offline Thorn

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FSDoc Updates/Suggestions
Something I was looking up today. Table explantions. There are only 3 up there now, and none of the ones I was after. If I knew wtf I was doing I would update them myself, but then I wouldnt have been looking for them.....

 

Offline CP5670

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FSDoc Updates/Suggestions
I could contribute a few things here, but as Eishtmo said, I'm not sure what exactly is wanted. My ship database seems like it might fit in here (more comprehensive than Sandwich's :D), but I need to put this into html first and give it a cleaner look.

Also, it would be useful to make a distinction between official and unofficial information. There were many (sensible) extrapolations from existing facts which, although great to have in there, should somehow be labelled as being not strictly canon, and also one or two references to things entirely from user campaigns, which should probably not be in there.

 

Offline Sandwich

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FSDoc Updates/Suggestions
Quote
Originally posted by Cyker
Why make it screen-size specific?

Design it so it scales!

My challenge to you now is to make it so I can read it comfortably in Opera on an 800x600 screen and comfortably in NetFront on a 320x480 screen :p

Oh, and in Lynx on an 80x25 character screen :D


Dude, have you even TRIED to view the Wiki on those platforms? It scales perfectly as-is. :D

Quote
Originally posted by CP5670
Also, it would be useful to make a distinction between official and unofficial information. There were many (sensible) extrapolations from existing facts which, although great to have in there, should somehow be labelled as being not strictly canon, and also one or two references to things entirely from user campaigns, which should probably not be in there.


Agreed - perhaps something along the lines of www.ditl.org where they color-code information according to canoninity.
SERIOUSLY...! | {The Sandvich Bar} - Rhino-FS2 Tutorial | CapShip Turret Upgrade | The Complete FS2 Ship List | System Background Package

"...The quintessential quality of our age is that of dreams coming true. Just think of it. For centuries we have dreamt of flying; recently we made that come true: we have always hankered for speed; now we have speeds greater than we can stand: we wanted to speak to far parts of the Earth; we can: we wanted to explore the sea bottom; we have: and so  on, and so on: and, too, we wanted the power to smash our enemies utterly; we have it. If we had truly wanted peace, we should have had that as well. But true peace has never been one of the genuine dreams - we have got little further than preaching against war in order to appease our consciences. The truly wishful dreams, the many-minded dreams are now irresistible - they become facts." - 'The Outward Urge' by John Wyndham

"The very essence of tolerance rests on the fact that we have to be intolerant of intolerance. Stretching right back to Kant, through the Frankfurt School and up to today, liberalism means that we can do anything we like as long as we don't hurt others. This means that if we are tolerant of others' intolerance - especially when that intolerance is a call for genocide - then all we are doing is allowing that intolerance to flourish, and allowing the violence that will spring from that intolerance to continue unabated." - Bren Carlill

 
FSDoc Updates/Suggestions
That'd be nice, especially with some [ canon ] [ /canon ], or [ ncanon ] [/ ncanon]  tags.
just another newbie without any modding, FREDding or real programming experience

you haven't learned masochism until you've tried to read a Microsoft help file.  -- Goober5000
I've got 2 drug-addict syblings and one alcoholic whore. And I'm a ****ing sociopath --an0n
You cannot defeat Windows through strength alone. Only patience, a lot of good luck, and a sledgehammer will do the job. --StratComm

 

Offline karajorma

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FSDoc Updates/Suggestions
Quote
Originally posted by Thorn
Something I was looking up today. Table explantions. There are only 3 up there now, and none of the ones I was after. If I knew wtf I was doing I would update them myself, but then I wouldnt have been looking for them.....


Before he was swallowed by a black hole Galemp gave me permission to put his VPView FAQ on the wiki (well actually the HLP FAQ but it's pretty much the same thing).  His explaination of the tables is pretty good and may have what you're after.

In fact I'm quite happy to see anything from my FAQ cut and paste into the wiki as long as I don't have to do it all :D
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

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Offline WMCoolmon

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FSDoc Updates/Suggestions
I'd suggest a crash course, explaining the relationship that the mediaVPs, exes, and the launcher all have with each other. Something more technical than the installing instructions, that introduce new users to the concept of filesystem priority, how to effectively build a freespace 2 directory tree, and maybe some stuff on how tables work. Something that would give a general overview of 'common-sense' modding stuffs and how it relates to fs2_open.

I've been meaning to write it up for about a month, but haven't had the motivation to do it all - so I'd recommend that if anyone's interested, they feel free to do it themselves.

Uhm, hmm...something else I'd like to see would be a "major features" discussion, with such things as shinemapping, glowmapping, and (of course) modular tables/hud_gauges table :thepimp:. This would be more aimed at modmakers and technical types, and where you'd check to get info on the Big New Features That Could Really Help Your Campaign. (Go ahead and use that for the page name, I won't mind ;))
-C