[jdjtcagle]

http://www.politics1.com/parties.htm

Would this be the right site to look for them, Rictor?

Well I'm guessing so...
Could someone change the poll to add some others on this site

[redsniper]

Originally posted by Ford Prefect
*puke*

ahem...
FedEx vs US mail

[PeachE]

meh, there's an old joke: Our Republican Party is a lot like the British Tory party, and Our Democratic Party is a lot like the British Tory party.

and it's true, they're basically the same. they both believe that America should be the center of the world (and the known universe for that matter), culturally economically and militarily. they both feel that it is our "responsibility" to "protect" the rest of the world.  

the only real difference is who they're taking their payoffs/campaign contributions from. republicans like taking their money from the old school industries - oil, manufacturing, etc, whereas the dem's tend to like biotechnology, telecommunications, and pharmaceuticals.

which is probably the only real reason why they differ on the following issues (tho more and more slightly these days. while coincidentally, the big lobby's have recently starting putting more effort into paying off both parties.. hmmmm...): abortion/public health care, the environment/new energy, free market vs regulated economy (tho in actuality, they both want to raise taxes on middle america - they just want their tax cuts to go to different groups of wealth people).

the values, the morals. yeah, it's all just filler so they can sell the product.

the only issue that has anything to do with morals and values that's on the table this election is gay marriage, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if the only reason the republicans are against it is that corporations don't want to have to pay out for any more spousal coverage.

but don't take my word for it. i'm much much more cynical than most.

[Knight Templar]

PeachE nailed it, more or less.

My Advice: Go independent, and take the side of whatever you think is right.

Spoiler:

Although, if you're being forced upon the issue... No child has ever trifled in the affairs of the Republican Party and lived to tell about it.

Pure Evil can be a cool thing.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Rictor
Let me just add that there is a very important third system, if I can be so general, and that is anarchism. Its quite a bit more complicated to explain than either "liberal" or "conservative", but I think thats its a unique and interesting philosophy.

It's also crap. Anarchy is the most unstable form of government. It breaks down into order within minutes.

[Rictor]

Methinks you have some baseless stereotypes as to what exactly anarchism as and how it functions. There are many, many groups today that practice anarchism, and they're quite stable. Noteably, Spain following Franco's uprising was almost completely run by anarchists (the CNT). They managed to organize the peasant population into a military force effective enough to stop the advance of the Spanish army ffs. People with no military experience, not even the ability to read, with nothing but the will to fight for their freedom, were able to stop the Loyalists dead in their tracks and hold line, working (yes, within the military as well) on the principle of anarchism. Sounds plenty organized to me. Most of the Communist forces that would later fight in the war were trained and equipped behind the shield that the anarchists and others provided, before they were suppressed by the Communists themselves.

Remeber, people supportive of monarchy said the same thing of democracy, that it would be too disorganized and could never function.

I'm not saying that its the best system to have, not for the time being anyway, but its a very unique and interesting alternative. Most people, myself included, are not really ready yet to accept such a radical departure from current political organization (e.g. democracy), but hey, its an option.

[Aspa]

[problary OT]

Politicians. We need a new way to look at them. They should be the peoples *****es, not some kind of petty selfimportant asshole trying to lord it around.

Take away their clothes and put em in a big brother bunker for constant surveillance, I say.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Rictor
Methinks you have some baseless stereotypes as to what exactly anarchism as and how it functions. There are many, many groups today that practice anarchism, and they're quite stable. Noteably, Spain following Franco's uprising was almost completely run by anarchists (the CNT). They managed to organize the peasant population into a military force effective enough to stop the advance of the Spanish army ffs. People with no military experience, not even the ability to read, with nothing but the will to fight for their freedom, were able to stop the Loyalists dead in their tracks and hold line, working (yes, within the military as well) on the principle of anarchism. Sounds plenty organized to me. Most of the Communist forces that would later fight in the war were trained and equipped behind the shield that the anarchists and others provided, before they were suppressed by the Communists themselves.

Remeber, people supportive of monarchy said the same thing of democracy, that it would be too disorganized and could never function.

I'm not saying that its the best system to have, not for the time being anyway, but its a very unique and interesting alternative. Most people, myself included, are not really ready yet to accept such a radical departure from current political organization (e.g. democracy), but hey, its an option.

And what you've basically described is a system that broke down into another system almost immediately. Anarchy starts breaking down the second it starts. Usually it breaks down in to despotism (Often on a local rather than national scale) but the fact remains that anarchy is NOT stable. Someone comes along and organises everything again.

[Zarax]

Swedish system all the way!

[BlackDove]

"If I have to choose between republicanism or democratism, I choose communism" - Franklin Delano Roosevelt

True story.

[Drew]

Originally posted by BD
"If I have to choose between republicanism or democratism, I choose communism" - Franklin Delano Roosevelt

True story.

go back and read what he did. Every word of that is true.

Republicans are way to liberal to be called real conservatives now adays. Democrats are nutz.  My advice to you, figure out what you believe now, read of history from independent scources, then read on economics from independent sources, then look at at the voting records of each party (not what they say, look at what they have actually done. The stuff thats on the news now dosnt reflect at all what the politicians have voted for in the last 10 years). Then figure out what you belive in after you have done all that stuff, because now you will have more to think about than just your own opinions. I hope you dont read only stuff writen by democrats, or stuff only writen by republicans, and i encourage you to read things written by the people who founded our country, because like it or not, what they wrote helped keep this country around for 200+ years.

[vyper]

The US voting system needs an enema - preferably with civil uprising included for those hard to reach places.

[pyro-manic]

F'ckin' right. It'll happen anyway, as soon as the oil runs out...

Originally posted by AspaPoliticians. We need a new way to look at them. They should be the peoples *****es, not some kind of petty selfimportant asshole trying to lord it around.

Take away their clothes and put em in a big brother bunker for constant surveillance, I say.

Spot on! :yes:

Whatever happened to "by, for, and of the people"?

cagle: Yeah, you're young, but you're not that young, and you'll be middle-aged before you know it (damn....I'm not even 20 yet and I feel old:blah: ). And by then it's too late. As Rictor said, don't feel constrained to a political party, particularly not the Big Two in America. They're so similar it's not even funny - the US is now almost a corporate dictatorship.

Read a lot, talk to people, ignore the mainstream media (it's full of ****), and keep your eyes open. You'll soon find where you fall.

Drew: Republicans? Liberal?? Eh? I'm at a loss as to how you can see that. Proto-fascist, maybe (at least in part), but no way are they liberal....

[Rictor]

Drew: Republcans are too liberal if you are reffering to the views classically held by conservatives - small government, low taxation, non-interventionist foreign policy. But what is today assosciated with conservativism is more leaning towards fascism than conservative ideals.

Thomas Jefferson once said that there are two kinds of people, aristocrats and democrats (NOT reffering to the Dems as a political party, but only as a political mindset. The Democratic Party didn't even exist then). Aristocrats, be they from the left or from the right, think that their views are the best, and want to force them on the dumb, confused masses, for their own good. They believe that the governance of society should best be left to "wise men", and that democracy is a dangerous idea. Democrats believe that the people have a right to chose their own fate, be it good or bad, and usually it will be good. They have faith is the people to decide what is best for themselves, and oppose the rule by elite groups of powerhunry individuals.

That I think is a very, very important distinction. That is essentially whats wrong with the American system, and not just in America, pretty much everywhere else too. All the major parties are aristocrats. But it is especially pronounced in America because the two party system is so entrenched, more so than in many other countries.

Here is an excellent (and beautifully designed, damn the Swiss, there's just no point in even trying to beat them, they're the best designers) Flash presentation on Swiss democracy. I consider it to be among the best in the world.
http://www.swissworld.org/dvd_rom/eng/direct_democracy_2004/content/politsystem/politsystem.html

[Rictor]

Originally posted by jdjtcagle
http://www.politics1.com/parties.htm

Would this be the right site to look for them, Rictor?

Well I'm guessing so...
Could someone change the poll to add some others on this site

Thats looks like a good resource. I actually learned quite a bit about some of the more obscure political parties in America from that website.

What I think you ought to keep in mind is that parties usually embody a particular political system. All the "isms" if you will. Now, the specific alignment of a party tends to move around a bit on the Left-Right scale, depending on the times, but they usually adhere more or less to one or two ideaologies. Now I consider, and this is just my personal opinion, that these ideaologies form what is essentially the core of political thought, and that specific parties are secondary. I think this because knowledge of the different systems that exist (Liberalism, Socialism, Fascism etc) is not only more fundamental, but also more ...what the right word...concrete, than knowledge as a particular party's platform. The Democrats, for example, can (and do) drift quite a bit in the their official ideaology, not only that, but as I mentioned, what they say the stand for and what they really do stand for are quite different things.

I'm trying to explain this in as straight-forward a manner as possible, but I may not be doing too good a job. If you need something clarified, just ask.

[Ford Prefect]

If you want to assess your specific political allignment, I would highly recommend this site: http://www.politicalcompass.org

[Grey Wolf]

Interesting.... I've moved farther to center and farther towards libertarianism since last time I took that test.

[phreak]

Originally posted by Rictor
phreak: who?

some guy on jeopardy that has won about 35 days in a row and amassed a small forture (1 million+) in doing so.  he's probably smarter than the entire capital combined

[Rictor]

I'm almost exactly where Ghandi is, though economically I'm a bit authoritarian.

lets not derail the topic guys

edit: actually scrath that, this website is actually very good at explaining the different political concepts, and finding your place among them.The particularly like the 2-axis system, instead of the 1-axis Left-Right, and the supporting text that explains it all.

I'm impressed.



I don't agree with where they placed Kerry and Dean, but for the most part, I concur with their analysis (I just concur didn't I? Better get my top-hat and monacle.)

[Ford Prefect]

If you're right where Ghandi is, that puts you and I at about the same spot. Makes sense.