[.::Tin Can::.]

Ya know, when you think about it, all we would have to do is get rid of their nukes and everything is fine. Once their long-range striking capability is gone then there really isnt any reason to be there now is there?

However, if Bush was to ever start saying "We need to free the people too!" then I will just loose my support for him completely. We are there to destroy the nuclear missile capability and thats it. In fact, get some seals to just swim up to the ship and sink it. We can use explosive Chinese Food.

But the world will never be devoid of conquers, madmen, jackasses, cruel monsters, or dictators. Which is why we have to get rid of them first. I've noticed a lot of people go for the "Not Now But Later" plan, when they dont want to dick around with it NOW, just wait for something to happen first and THEN take care of it.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Black Wolf
Will he attack North Korea?
 

hell no. Hes got to much of a problem fixing iraq. THe only thing North Korea has done is actually build the weapons, not actually use them or threaten with them. If NK started posturing against SK with WMDs  im sure the UN would be much more envolved, since the war their isnt official over (and IIRC still under UN jursdiction).

EDITL

Originally posted by Holy Imperial Gloriano


IF he is Very stupid then he might, Okey many peoples say's that USA can win easily but they wont they get their ass kicked until end because NK is not like IRAQ was USA could lose in that war over 100,000 soldiers and if NK use mass-Destruction weapons then there will be lot more casulties

and IF NK gets Chinas help somehow well I would not want to be in american shoes

NK has over 1,000,000 armed troops. Maybe one nuclear weapon. IF NK gave the slightest hint that they would actually use that one nuclear weapon on our 100,000, the US would turn all 1,000,000 of those armed troops into atoms in a heartbeat. So yeah, there would be more casualties. And nukes probably wouldnt be used offensivly again.

[Rictor]

Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
But the world will never be devoid of conquers, madmen, jackasses, cruel monsters, or dictators. Which is why we have to get rid of them first.

uh, do you read what you write?

No one has yet asnwered me, what give the US the right to deny any country weapons developments that they themselves have. America has no authority over a sovereign nation like North Korea

[Drew]

And no other nation has the right to tell American what the **** it cant do. No collection of nations either.

[Ace]

Originally posted by Drew
And no other nation has the right to tell American what the **** it cant do. No collection of nations either.

Do I sense a double standard here?

[Rictor]

Your rights stop where another's begin. America has no right to invade or attack another country if they do not pose a direct theat. No one is trying to take that right away, because you don't have it in the first place. Furthermore, its hyproctical, since America not only possess WMD, but is also the only country to ever use nukes. Face it, you have no authority to decide on the internal affairs of other nations.

Unless you just want to agree that might makes right, and in that case we can stop talking about all this morality, rule of law, freedom and so forth, cause its just tyranny.

[Omniscaper]

I wonder in if in an alternate timeline universe, the US got word wind of  some crazy coup leader in Germany building a massive war machine, which intel says are likely to invade Poland. And they got involved and went in to dearmed his army. And all of the sudden the US is attacked in the media for violating a sovereign nation's rights and takes all sorts of European flak for taking that action. US is EVIL!!! The US is EVIL!!! The US is EVIL!!!


::


Sometimes I wish the US did not get involved in WWII (if Pearl Harbor didn't happen of course). It wasn't our problem, we should have let Europe handle this Hitler dude on their own, he's not invading, he's just expanding his assets and territories. WE SHOULD NOT HAVE CARED.

You know what, one day the US will only tend to itself and stay out of world affairs in amidst of GLOBALIZATION. And when the s h i t hits the fan over ther, I wonder how flak we will get for being IGNORANT and selfish (sounds familiar... hmmmm)

All you people who keep suggesting that no diplomatic effort was made, when it WAS and was proven useless against tyranical psychos who's massing weapons and troops or showed a history of neighbor invasion and to give UN  inspectors a hard time.

THE UN BAND NK from starting a nuclear program. And now that its happening with an added bonus of longrange capabilities, and where's the UN's response. The US will do everything in its power to stop this if nobody else does (dejavu). I guess everyone else is just gonna sit back and watch American blood be spilled, then like vultures, reap the benefits of someone else's work.


Im' sorry folks, I know the US is not perfect. Hell its FAR from perfect. I'm just getting sick of this America bashing.

[aldo_14]

The problem is the US does tend to itself.... it takes decisions based on its own national security which affect sovereign nations in a negative way.

It's the age-old problem of a superpower which has sufficient hegemony to force its national interests on those of smaller but still democratic nations, and which abuses that power.

And as a second point, US involvment in WW2 has absolutely no relevance to the current global / political situation.  Especially when the complaint is the US starting wars.  It's true that US isolationist polices were a key reason for the failure of the League Of Nations (amongst many) - but by the same token, the Bush 'pub fight' strategy is clearly having a negative impact on global stability.

[Ghostavo]

Omniscaper, in WWII, if the US hadn't done a thing, and all Asia/Africa/Europe was under Axis control where do you think they would strike next?

As for vultures... well... I don't have to remind you of certain... "liberations" the US has performed in many countries across the globe.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Ghostavo
Omniscaper, in WWII, if the US hadn't done a thing, and all Asia/Africa/Europe was under Axis control where do you think they would strike next?

As for vultures... well... I don't have to remind you of certain... "liberations" the US has performed in many countries across the globe.

More likely under Communist control, though.  Wonder how the US would have liked an entirely commie europe?

[Omniscaper]

The US wouldn't have to make these types of decisions if the UN actually did its job in enforcement. I hate the fact that the US is acting like a world police when its the UN's job to keep the peace.

I will not disreguard HISTORY and the fact that history DOES repeat itself.

So Ghostavo, did Amerca get involved for national security issues or geniune concern for the invaded.  Its Both. Thats my point.

[Rictor]

Its not America bashing

a) North Korea is not expanding its territory, nor does it show any signs of wanting to do so. Hitler invaded 3 nations befoer war was declared, North Korea has invaded none.

b )Don't talk about broken UN resolutions, the US has a fair number of those, and would have tons more if it wasn't able to block those critical of US policy via its seat on the Security Council.

c) The UN has (traditionally) been subordinate to the US, and even so, they have no authority to impose a double standard. If the US wants a world without nukes, fine, but they have to disarm as well.

d) Take a guess how many people would class Bush as a "tyranical psychos who's massing weapons and troops "?

You seem to think that the US going isolationist would be a bad thing.

If the UN ordered America to get rid of all its nukes and nuclear programs, you'de laugh, right? They have no authority to do that. So, why do you think they have the authority to do so with NK?

You can't selectively apply one standard to a certain group, and another to another group. The US does not get to decide who may or may not have WMD, neither does the UN.

[Tiara]

You know, blaming Europe today for not 'paying the US back' for what they did 50 years back is just p[lain stupid for multiple reasons;

1). They did it mostly for their own interests. They don't want to face a vast warmachine full of Nazi's to face.
2). They didn't want the Commies to somehow win and take over Europe.
3). They got involved after Pearl Harbor had been hit. They feared more attacks but now from the Germans as they grew more powerful by the day.
3). IT HAPPENED 50 YEARS AGO. GET OVER YOUR F*CKING SELVES.
4). Europe should not just do whatever the US feels is right. We're not your lapdog. If you're angry because we don't agree with you, stick it up your self-rightious butt.

Seriously, it pisses me off immensely when Americans give me this argument.

I don't bash America, I bash the American government. Because no mattger what you say, its a ****ty ass government for what's supposed to be 'the supreme power' of the world.

We have a right to say **** about them as long as they interfere with international affairs because they don't just involve America. No they involve us as well.

Sorry, but you are NOT the only ones on this damned planet and not everyone has to agree with YOU without a reason. Period.

[Omniscaper]

Has the US used nukes to invade and permanently occupy a country?

In what way did the US act like vultures with Iraq? What did we get out of it? Oh dead US soldiers!!! We like that. Thats must have been what we wanted.  Oh Let me guess the obvious, OIL thats the reason. Mr. Bush must have already established his own personal oil line that leads straight to his back yard as Michael Moore would suggest. Funny how many European companies now want pieces of Iraqi assets... interesting,

NK has a history. NK has a history with an added bonus of modern weaponry. Concern for NK is both valid and wise.

[Omniscaper]

Tiara, your funny. =)

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Omniscaper
The US wouldn't have to make these types of decisions if the UN actually did its job in enforcement. I hate the fact that the US is acting like a world police when its the UN's job to keep the peace.

I will not disreguard HISTORY and the fact that history DOES repeat itself.

So Ghostavo, did Amerca get involved for national security issues or geniune concern for the invaded.  Its Both. Thats my point.

Or oil?  Or revenge?

But I'm not going to get into another one of these arguments....my point always is, to be brief. that America is a great nation, but one which has a history of abusing its power.  At present, this is something whihch concerns me - as a British citizen - because US foreign policy appears to be of an antagonistic, imperialistic nature which has only served to destabilise global security.

I also have concerns that the man in charge of the US has the intelligence of a baked potato.  Blair might be a facetious, smarmy, arrogant, lying bastard, but at least he appears to be capable of swallowing a baked snack without incapacitating himself*.

*not to be interpreted as an endorsement.

[Rictor]

If the UN ordered America to get rid of all its nukes and nuclear programs, you'de laugh, right? They have no authority to do that. So, why do you think they have the authority to do so with NK?

I have yet to hear an answer, from anyone.

NK has a history

Are you even remotely aware that the US also has a history, one far bloodier and more agressive than NK?

[Rictor]

My view of why the US invaded Iraq is two-fold

1) To establish a permanent and strong military base of operations in the Middle-East, and to take out an enemy of Israel.

2) To provide American businessnes with a new and adundant market, with little to no laws and low competition. Oil is also part of this, but not the only part. This is within the framework of shotgun capitalism that has been around for a while now. Traditionally, this has been accomplish via a coup, but invasion also works.

[Ghostavo]

The US also have a history. The US have a history with an added bonus of an insane leader that is out to conquer the globe. And the US is concerned about NK? Hell, NK more concerned about the US than the other way around.

[Tiara]

Originally posted by Omniscaper
Tiara, your funny. =)

That, and you are wrong.

Goodbye, and have a nice day.