[Omniscaper]

:=):   nope, I'm not wrong. That is how I see it.

Ghostavo, its Islamic fundamentalists that are out to take over the world not the US.

[Rictor]

damnit, answer my question. Its hard to miss, being in big bold letters...twice.

Islamic fundamentalists may (or may not) be out to take over the world, but the US doesn't have to try, they already have.

Military bases in 132 (out of a total of 192) nations, control over the WTO, IMF, World Bank, NATO, the Hague, and partial control over the UN (and various offshoots such as UNCTAD) and the ICJ. Thats closer to world domination than anyone has ever come before. Politically, certainly economically and militarily, and probably culturally, the US rules the world. But I guess that OK since they're the good guys, right?

[Genryu]

I'm not wrong, 'cause I say so.... Yeesch, you're for Bush, that's for sure. "If you're not with us, you're against us."
BTW, ever find those WMDs that were the reason for invading Irak in the first place ?

Edit : And I suppose that the Christian Evangelist (aka christian fundamentalist) are not trying to do the same with Bush at their helm/under the thumbs ?

[Ghostavo]

Yeah right... I've seen a lot of Islamic fundamentalists taking invading other countries... when was the last invasion? 9th century?

[Omniscaper]

Ghostavo, tell that to your Spanish neighbor, whose polls were controlled by them.

[Genryu]

Plus, has the Islamist ever tried to do something on the order of the Crusade in their entire history ? or like the Inquisition ? If I must feel afraid of a religion, Islam is not the first one that would make me afraid...

[Rictor]

Oh please, the Socialists were in a close race, and over 90% of the population was opposed to the war. Not to mention that Aznar brings back bad memories from Franco's era. And Zapatero had been for months promising to pull troops out if elected. Spain witnessed true democracy, the people making their will heard.

and kindly anwer my question, cause I'll not shut up until you do.

[Omniscaper]

Whoa, I didn't know the Crusades was the US's fault. I guess I should blame Bush for that too.

[Genryu]

Errrr... It wasn't the bombing which made the elector change their opinions. it was the fact that Aznar's governement tried to use the bombing for their own end by blaming this on the ETA, when, for once, they had nothing to do with this.

[.::Tin Can::.]

Lets think about it this way:

Who would you trust more with nukes?

Osama, or America?
North Korea, or America?
Sadaam, or America? <--This is no longer a factor, but its a question to be used

The point is we have had nuclear capability for 60 years and only used it twice inside of war-time premisises. The reason we dont like other people using them is because:

A) Everyone hates America. Dont deny it, a lot of you foreign folks hate America and the American's in it, or at least at one point you did. America doesnt have a qualm with anyone, since we basically have proven ourselves to be an already sucessful society. No real reason for us to nuke anyone, every reason for them to nuke us.

[Rictor]

think you can ignore me, eh? We'll see about that.

[Genryu]

Never said the crusade were the US fault, only said that you seem afraid of islam fanatics where the christian already proved that they're able to do much worse than the islamists are doing.

[Omniscaper]

Afraid of Islamic extremists? I SAW THE FREAKIN PLANES SMASH INTO THE TOWERS. You BET they are a major concern to me.

[Taristin]

Originally posted by Rictor

and kindly anwer my question, cause I'll not shut up until you do.

Fine. I'll say it. I'm about as patriotic as a animal anyway.

Nothing gives us the right to disarm other nations unprovoked. America was wrong. It has happened before, and I'll be damned if it won't happen again.

Happy? Or does it have to be from one of them?

(BTW; I'm not bashing America. I happen to be American [If that wasn't obvious from my utter butchering of the english language]. I have the right to disagree with my country. Often.)

[Genryu]

Rictor, you're yacking so much that anyone with an IQ > 80 basically ignore you.

Tin Can, ever thought about the fact that there's a reason for nearly every country on earth allegedly hating you ? Odd thing, it only seemed to really grow like that during the last 4 years...

[Taristin]

Originally posted by Genryu
Rictor, you're yacking so much that anyone with an IQ > 80 basically ignore you.
 

Thanks.

[Rictor]

I keep yacking so much, because that is the central question of the issue. Either you admit that they have no right to seek disarmement, and the arguement collapses right there, or you admit that they have the right to do whatever they damn well want because they have the might, and peace, justice and so forth doesn't enter into it, in which case you end up looking like an asshole.

Whats the point in even discussing specifics if it is clear that unless NK poses a direct threat, which they don't, not any more of a threat than America poses to two dozen other countries, the US and UN have no right to force NK to disarm.

So thanks Raa, and no thanks Omni and Genryu.

[Genryu]

Omniscraper, if you go back to 1995, you'll see that we had our share of terrorist attack in 1995. Did we invade or attack Algeria, which was the country where the terrorist came from ? Nope, we improved interior security, and managed to solve the situation diplomatically. And one thing that tell me that we beat them is that, 3 years after the fact, the average citizen wasn't concerned by the terrorists anymore. As the name said it, terrorist win when they inspire terror. IMO, they already won in the US.

[Ghostavo]

Omniscaper, look at the past event this way...

Western world point of view: Terrorist attacks happening with increased numbers.

Islamic world point of view: Coalition of western nations invading Afghanistan, Iraq, and god knows what else.

It is going to be another long cold war...

[Genryu]

Rictor, they have the right to seek nuclear disarmement because nearly everybody agree on the fact that the NK leaders are dangerous. What they don't have the right is to invade the country.