Author Topic: My finest Hour  (Read 5899 times)

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Offline Gregster2k

  • 29
  • "HELLO, OMICRON."
if you're all so dissatisfied with the fact you can't save the colossus in that mission no matter WHAT you do, why dont one of yas get the FRED out and make it possible to "legally" save the Colossus then? =D (and then ummm lets blow it up LATER! LOL...or maybe make it die in the last mission...damn thing's so slow...can't make it out of capella in time...BOOM)

BTW: Baseball bat swing: I dunno, I always thought that the Colossus's rotation near the back of it rather than the middle was an intentional feature. After all, if a ship is designed to turn on that center of rotation then the front of it, where in the colossus' case most main guns are, can be aimed so much quicker.

of course then theres the pilots who look at the colossus and go WTH at how fast its nose moves that way, but ah well... :)
« Last Edit: August 12, 2004, 12:47:02 am by 1644 »

 

Offline TopAce

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[Rephrase]The mission loses its legality as soon as somebody edits it.[/Rephrase]

By the way, I think [V] would have either added a 'You saved the Colossus' debriefing or remove the Trebuchets from the loadout to get rid of this bug.

Having a debriefing saying something did not happen in a mission is a bug in my book.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2004, 06:28:57 am by 1079 »
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Offline Singh

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what would happen if someone actually fixed the Centre of Gravity issue with the colossus anyway? Would it unbalance the missions?
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Offline Hippo

  • Darth water-horse
  • 211
  • Grazing.
    • All Hands to War
doubt it... I never really see it move at all... other then in the one where it kills the sath, but its far enough away i'm not paying attention... though it usually gets rammed by debris :p
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AHTW

 

Offline TopAce

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Disabled capital ships cannot even steer. It is no wonder you still haven't seen it moving.

Changing the center of the gravity would only affect the Faint! Perry! Riposte! and the High Noon mission.
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Offline Kosh

  • A year behind what's funny
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Quote
Had it not been such a fugly ship, it'd have been pretty damn poignant.


I thought the hull design of the Collossus was also very ugly. It must have been a terran design. :)
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Offline TopAce

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The Colossus looks just fine.
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"Truth" is the opinion of the majority which it can enforce on the minority. Members of the minority have two choices: join the bandwagon or think. Those who do not fall into line will be brutally crushed.
The tools to maintain order are: lies, double standards, and hypocrisy. The most powerful and the most insidious of them is hypocrisy

 

Offline vyper

  • 210
  • The Sexy Scotsman
As they say, terran = Block not cock
"But you live, you learn.  Unless you die.  Then you're ****ed." - aldo14

 

Offline Ford Prefect

  • 8D
  • 26
  • Intelligent Dasein
I always make the Phoenecia invincible because I hate to see that nice destroyer get raped by the Sathanas.
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel

 
You know, that mission is loaded with oddities.  The Colossus' beams are never used against the Sath.  In addition to that, the "fleet" that Command sends in to blockade the node only makes use of flak turrets and AAA beams, but never the anti-capship beams.  It's such a damn annoyance, and I can never find the sexp that causes it.
Power to the Canadian facist conspiracy plot!

 

Offline Trivial Psychic

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Once, a while back, I was having considerable difficulty with FSO and it took me several attempts to pass this mission.  One of the times I attempted it, I was surprised to see friendly cap-ships firing their beams.  I've never had it happen since, and I have no idea what caused it, but it was a welcome surprise when it happened.  I didn't get far enough into the mission to see if the Colossus fires at the Sath unfortunately.

Later!
The Trivial Psychic Strikes Again!

 

Offline Shades

  • 23
I haven't played the campaign throught yet (I've got into the 4rd fleet HQ evacuation mission), but I think the Santhanas is not really nearly as formirable as it is made out to be. (Of course, if there are dozens of them flying around, that *is* a problem.) It relies far too much on it's main beam cannons, which a single bomber can easily disable in about 2 minutes, provided some escort to keep enemy fighters off it's back. (AI bombers seem to be completely incabable of damaging those beam cannons, though. They probably don't move close enought for their bombs to get throught the flak.)

 

Offline TopAce

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I basically drop the possibility of playing the official campaign with FSO.
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"Truth" is the opinion of the majority which it can enforce on the minority. Members of the minority have two choices: join the bandwagon or think. Those who do not fall into line will be brutally crushed.
The tools to maintain order are: lies, double standards, and hypocrisy. The most powerful and the most insidious of them is hypocrisy

 

Offline aldo_14

  • Gunnery Control
  • 213
Quote
Originally posted by TopAce
If a weapon cannot beat 80 Sathanases, is that a failure? :wtf:



It would have been the only ship to guard the jump node out of Capella to Vega. Imagine that huge 6 kilometre behemoth guarding a jump node. That demands attention.


So....stick a 6 kilometer long, quite probably disabled warship in an area which not only is a major escape route for (in realistic terms) thousands of transports?  Not only are you inviting a Shivan attack (and in somewhere that crowded - carnage), you're also placing a gigantic block in front of the only hope for escape.

And, of course, the presence of incoming transports would cause hell in trying to avoid freindly fire incidents.... unless you move it to a distance sufficient to let ships through safely, which creates a window of opportunity.

Oh, and if you run away from a fight, and let people die as a result - it's a failure.  The Collosus was designed to fight and kill Shivans.  It failed.  It's role after that, was to protect the civvies as they escaped.  It sacrificed itself to do so.

Were it not such a god-awful ****ing ugly ship, it'd be quite poignant.  Alas, the sight of a 6km long super-soaker going up isn't that stunning.

 

Offline TopAce

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You cannot expect any type of warships to attack and destroy 80 Sathanases anyway. Not the Colossus was a failure, the Shivans were successful.
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"Truth" is the opinion of the majority which it can enforce on the minority. Members of the minority have two choices: join the bandwagon or think. Those who do not fall into line will be brutally crushed.
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Offline TopAce

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By the way, I do not know where you collected the idea of the Colossus blocking everything. It is quite obvious the GTVA will not place her right in the middle of the node.
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"Truth" is the opinion of the majority which it can enforce on the minority. Members of the minority have two choices: join the bandwagon or think. Those who do not fall into line will be brutally crushed.
The tools to maintain order are: lies, double standards, and hypocrisy. The most powerful and the most insidious of them is hypocrisy

 

Offline aldo_14

  • Gunnery Control
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Quote
Originally posted by TopAce
By the way, I do not know where you collected the idea of the Colossus blocking everything. It is quite obvious the GTVA will not place her right in the middle of the node.


:sigh:

You just proved my point, if that's your recommended placement.  The colossus blocks all ships from the left (its right) side -blocking refugees.  

It encroaches partly across the direct (frontal) route to the node - blocking refugees.  

It is open to attacks from above, below, and the front.  It's placement means that these also happen to be the best places for refugees to come from - and hence Shivans in persuit.

That's assuming it is easy and quick for the transports to turn into position for jumping from above / below.

So the only effective defensive point for the colossus is to its direct left and right (where the guns are).    the most likely source of attack, is going to be from its left.  why?  Because that is the only point of sensible entry now left to transports - and if the Colossus fires then, it risks massive collateral damage.

If it wants to escape via the node, it also have to engage in a lengthy turning process, not only blocking the node but also leaving its vulnerable rear open to attack in the process.  And if the rear is hit too badly in this process, the Shivans have just created a massive 'plug' for the jumpnode to prevent escaping vessels, thanks to either copious amounts of debris, or a disabled juggernaught.

Basically, it'd be inviting a massacre.  At best, it prevents refugees escaping.  At worst, it traps them with the colossus on one side and the Shivans in the other.

In short, you've just built a killing field.

Well done.

 

Offline TopAce

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You ignore the Y axis. The Colossus blocks nothing.
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"Truth" is the opinion of the majority which it can enforce on the minority. Members of the minority have two choices: join the bandwagon or think. Those who do not fall into line will be brutally crushed.
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Offline aldo_14

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No, I don't.  The y-axis is the problem - the colossus is incredibly vulnerable from above and below.

Even if the colossus was below the level of the node, then it'd have changed from a block, to being useless - if the Shivans are attacking, they're hardly likely to lower themselves down to the level of the Colossuses most powerful beams on the side, are they?

They'd just steamroller over the top - i.e. if the colossus is above or below the node, it is presenting its largest weakpoint to the Shivans.

It's simple.  A node is a chokepoint.  A colossus would choke it - for the escaping civvies.

Not only that, it's pretty damn obvious that if you want to blockade from attack, you do it where the enemy is least able to escape - i.e. that would be the exit.  If you want to protect an entrance, and allow others to use it, you move outwards in diversionary attacks or to set up a perimeter.

what you do not do in this situation, is to place a gigantic target that has to block the only escape route for civlillians in order to function effectively.

And this is even assuming the Colossus is not badly damaged and has all turrets operational.

And not to mention that placing the near-crippled colossus on a jumpnode is effectively painting a giant bullseye for the Shivans.

 

Offline TopAce

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The Colossus can reach everything with her beams. It assumes that the Colossus has all its turrets operational, yes. It also had its turrets operational in Clash of the Titans II. This is merely an assumption since we know what has become of the Colossus in the early mission.

And what we both now even better: We know this discussion will never end unless the thread is closed. We cannot see how this would work in a real mission, and even if any of us(mostly you since I do not FRED assumptions) decide to make a mission similiar to this situation, there are still so many directions where transports and Shivans can come from. There are simply too many possibilities.

We make this thread a site of wrangle, if you stick to. Threads in General FreeSpace or FreeSpace modding are rarely checked by admins anyway, so we can continue this debate until we get bored modding FreeSpace and visiting HLP.
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"Truth" is the opinion of the majority which it can enforce on the minority. Members of the minority have two choices: join the bandwagon or think. Those who do not fall into line will be brutally crushed.
The tools to maintain order are: lies, double standards, and hypocrisy. The most powerful and the most insidious of them is hypocrisy