Poll

Should we nudge new people in the direction of a specific campaign?

Hell Yes. I'm tired of seeing campaigns die
28 (80%)
Hell No. We might scare them out of the community if we seem too draconian
2 (5.7%)
Maybe. I've got some ideas on how you should change your proposal (post below)
5 (14.3%)

Total Members Voted: 35

Voting closed: August 26, 2004, 12:36:03 pm

Author Topic: Newbie campaigns and FRED  (Read 8948 times)

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Offline Axem

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Newbie campaigns and FRED
I think it is a quite interesting idea. I think one large obstacle with making your own campaign is that once you hit a certain point, you don't know where to go and the result is usually a half-completed campaign. I hit it with my mini-campaign at the final mission, and my result was a cliched ending (*GASP* It's another Knossos! :eek: :rolleyes: ).

Now with this, you have it a bit easier, because there is already story there for you. All you would really need to worry about is a single mission.

As for mods, definitely mod-less. It means less work, for everyone (Death to tables! :mad: ). Homesick has shown that you don't need any new ships to tell a story. Plus there's always modifing the alt-name and changing weapons in FRED to give the illusion of refitted vessels if they don't fit it. ;)

All of this babblering being said, I would be interested. :nod:

 

Offline karajorma

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Newbie campaigns and FRED
In being one of the newbie FREDders or one of the experts (or something in between) Axem? I've only played the first mission of your campaign and I didn't look at it in FRED but what I saw didn't seem too shabby at all :)
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 
Newbie campaigns and FRED
I think if all goes badly, we could try to assemble some campaigns out of the half-finished campaigns (and miscellaneous missions) everybody has made.  Could be a fun, if chaotic, experience.

At the very least, the missions would be played, even if the storyline seemed slightly convoluted.

And I agree that if there is to be a basic project, that MODs should be avoided.  Nothing like a good, old fashion, FS2 experience.  Non-purists need not apply! ;)
The woods are lovely, dark and deep. / But I have promises to keep, / And miles to go before I sleep, / And miles to go before I sleep.
- Robert Frost, "Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening."

Looking for a 4-player version of the main FS2 campaign?  Go here.

 

Offline Axem

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Newbie campaigns and FRED
Quote
Originally posted by karajorma
In being one of the newbie FREDders or one of the experts (or something in between) Axem? I've only played the first mission of your campaign and I didn't look at it in FRED but what I saw didn't seem too shabby at all :)


Shield your eyes if one should dare look at my missions in Fred. :p Actually they aren't that bad (I think), it's mainly the message names that are misleading sometimes...

Anyway, I really wouldn't know where to place myself.

I've done lots of missions in XvT and XWA a few years ago, doing missions with FRED is pretty easy from what I've learned there (Playing with sexps are SO much fun ;)).

I wouldn't call myself a newbie FREDder, but certainly not an expert. Somewhere in between I guess.

 

Offline karajorma

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Newbie campaigns and FRED
Take a look at the first few mission to appear then. If you can advise do so. If you're not much better sign up :)
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 

Offline JR2000Z

  • 27
Newbie campaigns and FRED
I was able to FRED long ago but one only able to make decent at it's best missions. I could use a refresher course. :)

Probably for the best too. Should practice now since I am  already brainstorming for my own campaign.
I finally destoryed the Shivan armada and all I got was this lousy T shirt.

 

Offline ShadowWolf_IH

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Newbie campaigns and FRED
OK.  Aldo talked with me and brought my attention to this thread.  I would be very interested in this.  I don't have much time to devote to actually fredding it or going over anyone's work, but i would be more than happy to accept the new guys into Mercenaries.  Here's how Mercs works......it's just an idea right now, but i plan to be working on it soon enough.

The player chooses a contract.  There may be anywhere from 2 -5 contracts up at a given time.  Some contracts may only be 1 month..ie one or two missions, some may be for longer....ie 3, 4, or 5 missions.  Each contract should be a mini campaign, and none of them have to further the storyline at first...the storyline is time based....ie...events outside of what the player is doing are happening and he gets drawn in..at one point, no matter which contract he takes......he is involved in the story line.  

once he is finished with his current contract, he gets to go shopping (maybe) and then choose another contract.  I actually have the basis for the campaign tree, which is going to be a nightmare.

Anyway, you can see how this would easily lend itself to what is being proposed in here.....and seein as i have talked to both Karajorma and Aldo, i'd may as well let it out of the bag in here.  The campaign is non linear, you literally choose your path.  I had planned on keeping it on the backburner until i cleared some more of my plate off, but i guess with the advent of this (thanks karajorma, just what i need...more work...;)) i'd may as well ask for help out in the open.  If we want to do this with new people, then i think what we need to do is get a solid fredteam who can look over the work that they do.  I'd be happy to run the MOD, and there would be a few mods in there, but i cannot oversee every aspect at this time.  So it's up to you guys if we want to do this or go for something even more simple.  I think that having each fredder build a mini campaign and some standalone missions would be good experience for them.  They can also come up with storylines and such.  We can teach them.

Thanks for thinking of me Aldo and Kara.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2004, 07:49:04 pm by 820 »
You can't take the sky from me.  Can't take that from me.

Casualties of War

 
Newbie campaigns and FRED
I say we create an FS:SCP offical map creation system.  As in, people are broken down into groups, and everyone works on one mission or campaign until it's finished.  This will let everyone merge ideas.  Isn't it wonderful?
For great justice.

 
Newbie campaigns and FRED
Another thing to keep new FREDders occupied would be to (possibly) make multiplayer conversions of singleplayer missions.  That way, they wouldn't need to create missions from scratch, but they'd still have to fiddle around with balance issues, and perhaps even expand the mission a bit.  Almost like making half a mission.

Another thing is that there are a lot of single player missions that could simply use some touch ups and polishing.  If new FREDders were to polish up the missions then convert them, that would also be a valuable source of 'training.'
The woods are lovely, dark and deep. / But I have promises to keep, / And miles to go before I sleep, / And miles to go before I sleep.
- Robert Frost, "Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening."

Looking for a 4-player version of the main FS2 campaign?  Go here.

 

Offline Ghostavo

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Newbie campaigns and FRED
Of course not all FREDders have the oportunity to test multiplayer missions...

Making more complex tutorials could help, but realisticly I don't see it happening.

Giving FREDders "assignments" should be interesting. You give a mission's general idea, and let their imagination make everything else up.
"Closing the Box" - a campaign in the making :nervous:

Shrike is a dirty dirty admin, he's the destroyer of souls... oh god, let it be glue...

 

Offline JR2000Z

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Newbie campaigns and FRED
If everybody in the community jumps in, we could have up to 2,113 new missions. That would be interesting. ;)
I finally destoryed the Shivan armada and all I got was this lousy T shirt.

 

Offline Pilot Of The US

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Newbie campaigns and FRED
hmmm, im very interested. Ive so far finished 2 missions (i think), and have released 1 (both are for FS2 vanila), so im still very much a newbie.  

I think this is a great idea, but keep new stuff to a minimum, eg. models, tables, SCP, etc..... so we dont run into too many problems.

New campaigns for FS2 vanila might also be a good idea, coz ive had lots of issues with FS2 open, prolly coz i got a slow/crappy comp. but anyway exellent idea.

 

Offline Singh

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Newbie campaigns and FRED
If you ever need any ideas or help reviewing missions, I can help out. I've been itching to FRED my own campaign using just the Vanilla stuff set right alongside the original FS2 campaign (though based partially on the Homesick concept). It won't be large, but then it wont be dull either :drevil:

I may not be an expert at FREDding, but I can do stuff, if nothing else :p :drevil:
« Last Edit: August 26, 2004, 11:47:51 pm by 1259 »
"Blessed be the FREDder that knows his sexps."
"Cursed be the FREDder that trusts FRED2_Open."
Dreamed of much, accomplished little. :(

 

Offline Gloriano

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Newbie campaigns and FRED
Quote
Originally posted by ShadowWolf_IH



Heh, I knew it was you Aldo and Kara talked about.
and well  :yes: :yes: :yes:
You must have chaos within you to give birth to a dancing star.- Nietzsche

When in despair I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won; there have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible, but in the end they always fall.- Mahatma Gandhi

 

Offline Ransom

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Newbie campaigns and FRED
As a newbie FREDder, I'm... really not sure what I should be posting, or even why I'm typing this, as usually when I start typing pointless things like this into the message I end up not posting anything anyway. Clearly however, that's not going to happen this time so I guess I'll have to figure out something useful to say in this post. Er... oh yes. I'd like to point out that I never FREDded using the original FRED2, and as such I have no idea what its limitations are (what sexp's it doesn't have) or what the graphic glitches are, beyond the obvious. This is partly because vanilla FRED2 doesn't even work on my system.

Anyway, my question is what's the major differences between FRED2 and FRED2 Open? Why would it be better for newbies to start with the original? Also that, even though I'm well aware I'm still a newbie and need to get more experience, I'd only join the newbie campaign based on whether the story and campaign itself interested me enough. I don't think I would be able to work on a campaign that didn't interest me, and I'm fairly certain that'd be the same with others. Newbies probably wouldn't be drawn to work on it, being the impatient people they (we) are, if it didn't interest them as a campaign as well as a learning experience.

With that said, ShadowWolf's idea (at least, how I understood it) is a good one. If this newbie campaign was a series of mini-campaigns where each group worked out their own individual story for that campaign, I think this could work. It's got me interested, at least. Because generally every newbie wants to do their own thing, which is why this thread is here in the first place. It'd be good if they were still allowed to do that, but in a more controlled environment.

 

Offline Pilot Of The US

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Newbie campaigns and FRED
Yeah, you're right. The newbie has to be interested in the campaign / story, otherwise there's a high chance they wont bother joining in.

 

Offline Pilot Of The US

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Newbie campaigns and FRED
Yeah, you're right. The newbie has to be interested in the campaign / story, otherwise there's a high chance they wont bother joining in.

(by my understanding) - FRED2 has less features, lower limits, less sexps, less creative options, etc...... and prolly doesnt work with FS2 open

EDIT : Sorry double posted by accident.....
« Last Edit: August 27, 2004, 03:22:05 am by 1659 »

 

Offline TopAce

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Newbie campaigns and FRED
FRED2 missions DO with FS_Open. Having an ICQ talk with karajorma yesterday, I know he would say let newbies use a stable FRED_Open(3.5.5). I tried to advise him not to use FRED_Open by start, but he refused me.
My community contributions - Get my campaigns from here.

"Truth" is the opinion of the majority which it can enforce on the minority. Members of the minority have two choices: join the bandwagon or think. Those who do not fall into line will be brutally crushed.
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Offline aldo_14

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Newbie campaigns and FRED
Well, if no-one uses FRED_open, then no-one will ever (be in a position to) find any bugs......

 

Offline Pilot Of The US

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Newbie campaigns and FRED
But FRED2 open is way more complicated that FRED2, and (i believe) has more bugs and problems. Newbies want to keep FREDing without having to report bugs and wait for them to be fixed, or have another version released.