[Flipside]

Also, in retail FS2, there were visible 'gradients' to the fading, sometimes a corvette would be 'cut in half' with the rear being visible and suddenly, about halfway up the model, the nebula would get thicker. This helps fix that problem

[Omniscaper]

Bob, remember my attempt months ago on the same effect?
Has there been any developments on implementing "sprites" that do not follow your rotation orientation yet? The glowpoint method I used does not have as much a performance hit. Its an object with 15 + glow points as it is.

The glow point method would allow people to place localized nebula in a non-nebula environment. Nice hiding spots I would think. I wonder if theres a way to jam radar when a ship is inside a particular region?

[Deepblue]

Yes, have a beacon inside the neb and set up an event so when the player is X distance away they will be hidden from sensors.

[DaBrain]

Originally posted by Lightspeed


It looks like something REALLY went wrong. It's even more ugly than X². Looks like some sort of rendering glitch or something.

You can probably decrease this effect, by reducing the opacity.

[Lightspeed]

Originally posted by Flipside
Also, in retail FS2, there were visible 'gradients' to the fading, sometimes a corvette would be 'cut in half' with the rear being visible and suddenly, about halfway up the model, the nebula would get thicker. This helps fix that problem

Not at all. Ships blend 100% smooth with 2d_poof enabled.

And Omniscapers attempts look nice, but not like a nebula at all. If we're going to implement a volumetric nebulae system, it will probably be necessary to code a Freelancer-esque way to do it.

[Kosh]

One thing that I could never stand about nebula missions was that I could never even see my own HUD very well. It's ok not to be able to see anything else clearly, but I gotta see my HUD......

[Solatar]

In the really bright nebula missions I make all the HUD gauges black. It helps a bit.

[Bobboau]

it was a bad pic, try it in game before you go nuts.

it is sort of similar to Omniscaper's thing, but more refined.

[Omniscaper]

NICE, can't wait to try it.

[JR2000Z]

What I say below may put some weight on some sholders so skip this post if you want to.



--------------
Has anybody actually been in a nebula? What is Bob's nebula supposed to look like?

For both Bob and Omni: Neblula density plays a big factor. IMO, Bob's nebula seemed more dense than the original. And this is the problem I had. You're flying in a nebula that seemed as dense as a cloud yet you have the same visibility if you were in the less denser parts. And of course the sun's lightning kicks in and makes an impact...
--------------

[Liberator]

The biggest problem I've always had with FS2 nebulae is that unless you're in one like when you have to rescue Snipes the nebula are bright to the point of blinding.  And turning down the brightness doesn't help much.  

I agree with LS to a point about the Freelanceresque nebula.  Those are freaky and you get a little nevous flying in them.

[Sandwich]

I think the nebulae is Freelancer / IWAR2 were much more akin to what you're trying to achieve, Bob. I didn't notice any sharp edges along ship hulls, and esp. in FL (IIRC), they seemed to be really volumetric. Looky:





Any chance we could figure out how those games did it?

[Lightspeed]

I know more or less how it works in FL.

[Bobboau]

we'd need full real volumetrics, wich would basicly require re-writeing the entier texture system becase it's completely inflexable and insaine.
maybe I should try puting FE2's texture system into FSO, it's set up for maximum memory efecency and use flexability.
eh, I'd rather have RT around before mucking about with that monstrosity

[Omniscaper]

I'm still kinda partial to the way X2-The Threat handles it. Too bad a game with such a nice engine could suck so badly.

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by Lightspeed
I know more or less how it works in FL.

More or less... how?

[Flipside]

I think it uses a gradient of thickness. From the outside, the Nebula uses a Bitmap and poofs, similar to FS2, but as you get closer, it starts adding 'distance fog' from what I can see, decreasing it as you get near to centre of the 'nebula' area. Also, the Freelancer engine uses an asteroid 'generator' routine to make space look more crowded near your ship that it really is

[Lightspeed]

GAAAAAAAHHHH X² ugggglllyyyy. Seriously, X²'s nebulas are the most retarded thing I've ever seen. They both look and feel absolutely crappy.

Originally posted by Bobboau
we'd need full real volumetrics, wich would basicly require re-writeing the entier texture system becase it's completely inflexable and insaine.
maybe I should try puting FE2's texture system into FSO, it's set up for maximum memory efecency and use flexability.
eh, I'd rather have RT around before mucking about with that monstrosity

We wouldn't. Freelancer does not use volumetrics for its nebulas either.

Now what Freelancer does is the following:

-----------------------------------

A general shape is specified (sphere, ellipsoid, cube, whatever).
The game will calculate the edges of the nebula region, and place textures there (flat thingies), you can reference which textures should be used. Now, the textures will fade in and out, depending on your position looking at them. If you look from say, the left side, you will only see the side texture (stretched to fit the shape), if you're on top of it, you'll only see the top/bottom texture, stretched to the size of it.

Additionally to those textures, theres several smaller ones, that get placed around the nebula. They're rendered to always turn to your viewpoint, and make for soft transistions of the nebula with the surrounding space.

When your ship enters the specified region for the nebula (i.e. is very very close to the flat texture displayed), a solid color layer fades in (as in, overlay to the whole background). As soon as youre inside the nebula the distance-fogging is activated (i.e. ships will "fade" to the background colour with distance, as in the FS2 nebulae) and poofs appear next to your ship. They continuously keep to get spawned (fade in, fly by, fade out) so it'll look like flying through a cloud. That's basically it.

There's also the option to use "clearings" inside the nebula, where you specify a shape / model, which is then placed inside the nebula. As soon as you enter said object, ALL nebula conditions (background colour, poofs, etc) get switched off, and you'll be flying inside the model, looking at textures resembling the surrounding nebula placed on it's inner surface.

If the post isn't too clear, I can make some screenies to show what I mean :-P

Anyway, it's a damn good system to do "volumetric" nebulae, compared to X²'s ****ty way of simply using some poof images and have them rotating all the time O.o

[Sandwich]

Well I understood it... the question is, can we implement something like it?

[Omniscaper]

I take it you can leave a nebula in Freelance (installed it and played it for a week and forgot about it cuz I found this community). I like the idea that the nebula has a perimeter unlike FS2.

Volumetric-wise, I think if nebulas can be implemented the way clouds are in IL-2 Sturmovik or recent MS-Flight Simulators, localized nebulas can be executed well. I believe they utilize hardware fog and poofs beautifully.

I had an unrealistic thought baout using an insano amount of small round glowpoints to build up a nebula the way Seuratt builds up his pointelism paintings. UBER fillrate eater. Perhaps in a couple of years, voxels will make a triumphant comeback.