[ZylonBane]

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Rictor
Sorry, doing cocaine, driving drunk, causing the deaths of 100,000 proplr, lying to the country and the world, cracking down on petty crimes and minor criminals, thats moral behaviour?

No, thats just the appearance of moral behaviour, because thats the way the strategists chose to spin Bush. It has little to do with reality.

For once I agree with you 100% Rictor.

Well apart from the bit where you missed out his money grabbing greed and cronyism.

[ionia23]

I'd rather be alongside his freaking motorcade through piles of excrement at him screaming "Charyou Tree!!!"

[Mongoose]

You people from foreign countries, and some of you from the US as well, just don't get it.  Those of us who voted for Bush didn't do so because they were brainwashed, homophobic, or any other leftist BS reason.  I voted for Bush because I agree with his stance with moral issues, because he did NOT lie about Iraq (try actually doing some research instead of repeating the party line ad nauseam), because he's not afraid to kick some terrorist ass, because he won't submit US authority to the United Nations (which is NOT a government, no matter what some people seem to believe), and because he puts through policies that have and will continue to stimulate economic recovery.  Does that sound like someone who is brainwashed?  I've been debating politics on the web for the past few years; I've read a crap-load of news stories from both sides.  And, after all of that, I made the informed decision to vote for Bush.  That's not being brainwashed; that's responsibly exercising my civic duty to vote.  I have no problems if you disagree with my choice, but please, don't make a fool out of yourself and call me brainwashed.

P.S.  Kazan, if all of that makes me a "Christo-fascist," then I'm damn proud to be one.  It's funny; the more you continue your hatred against religion, the more you're going to strengthen people's faith.  You're fighting a losing battle; give up and mind your own damn business.  And ROFL at "democracy is dead;" we have the greatest number of voters ever and the largest percentage since 1960, and you have the balls to call democracy "dead"?  Give me a break; if anything, this shows that democracy is stronger than it has been in a long time.  Just because your candidate didn't win doesn't give you the right to go around whining about it.

[Kazan]

you just repeated the party line mongoose

i recommend _YOU_ do some actual research about Iraq - but this is going no where

you're so convinced that bush is the ****ing messiah that he could eat babies live on TV and you'd still vote for him


I GOT NEWS FOR YOU: He is the worst president in US History

He ****s on the constitution every day
He has us attack countries were were clearly no threat to us and were not harboring terrorists - he then renegs on his promise/our responsibility to put them back togeather leading to the insurgency and the best recruiting campaign the terrorists could dream off
He practices economic policies that are nothing short of disasterous

i could go on, and on, and on but you wouldn't listen to any of it - i could drag your ass around iraq and SHOW you, i could take you on a tour of military history that shows what should have been done in iraq and why things are they way they are there, yada yada.

I COULD SHOW YOU UNDENIABLE EVIDENCE OF MY POSITION AND YET YOU WOULD STILL STICK TO YOUR "NO, BUSH IS THE BESTESTEST"

You are MISINFORMED Mongoose

The Economy ISN'T fine
The WERE NO WMD IN Iraq (And the Duelfer Report proves that)
There WERE NO LINKS BETWEEN SADDAM AND OSAMA (Duelfer Report again)
There are MORE terrrorists now than were in 2001
Bush doesn't care about osama - yet we know he's alive, and we know he giving the orders -- we could have captured him 2 years ago
There are countries taht actually DO support terrorism that we ignore.


Instead you're busy with "moral issues" - in other words YOU WANT TO SHUVE YOUR RELIGION DOWN OTHER PEOPLE'S THROATS - that's one of the many things that makes it christo-fascism (along with all the rights violations, the collusion of the mass media with the bush admin, etc)

YOU ARE MORE CONCERNED WITH FORCING OTHER AMERICANS TO TAKE YOUR RELIGION THAN YOU ARE WITH THE TRUTH OF CONDITIONS IN AMERICA AND IRAQ

[Mongoose]

Bush is the "bestest"?  Where the hell did I say that?  Bush is far from the best president we've had, but he's far better than that cardboard cutout that ran against him.  I'm not spitting back any party line; I have done research, and I stick by what I posted.  There were WMDs in Iraq between Gulf War I and now; we know that some of them were moved into Syria.  In fact, I predict some serious pressure on them now that Bush has been re-elected.   Look harder about the Iraq--Al-Qaeda issue; there were some dirty dealings between some AQ higher-ups and members of Saddam's government.  As for more terrorists, I think not; every one that is killed is one less for us to worry about.  Do you really think that Kerry would have been as agressive as Bush is?  As for Bush not caring about Osama, that's too ridiculous to even warrant a response.  He's on the run as we speak; his last desperate message is evidence of this.  I give it about six months.  We can't take care of every country that supports terrorism at once, but we'll get around to them.

If making sure that this country maintains some shred of moral decency against the rampant hedonism prevalent throughout popular culture is equal with "shoving religion down other people's throats," then I'll shove away.  You don't like it, leave.  Go to somewhere like the Netherlands; I hear they're not too concerned about morality over there.  Rights violations, collusions with media...where do you come up with this bullcrap?  Let me pull a "Kazan":  irrelevant, illogical, and inconceivable.  America is swinging back toward conservative values at long last; either learn to live with it or leave the country.

[Kazan]

Mongoose: Cite your "reasearch" that counters the Duelfer Report

Just because there were WMD there once upon a time doesn't mean they were there when we invaded (Duelfer Report says: there were not any thing when we invaded)

Look harder about the Iarq--Al-Qaeda Issue: The Duelfer report says there was no link conclusively ( it has been widely known for over a decade that Osama and Saddam hate each other)

For every one insurgent we kill, two stand up to replace him.  Do you seriously think you can reduce the ranks by killing when they're still recruiting?! You can NEVER kill faster than they can recruit - learn some military history.

Kerry as aggressive as bush? Absolutely, kerry just would have been dropping bombs on the right places, and actually putting Iraq back togeather so that the people there stop trying to kick us out.

Oh yes, osama's message looked "SOOO DESPERATE" -- Bush said it himself that he [bush] doesn't care about osama!

Originally posted by Mongoose
If making sure that this country maintains some shred of moral decency against the rampant hedonism prevalent throughout popular culture is equal with "shoving religion down other people's throats," then I'll shove away.

That violates our constitution and you know it ADMIT IT: YOU HATE FREEDOM!

Originally posted by Mongoose
You don't like it, leave.

IT'S MY COUNTRY TOO MOTHER****ER - IF YOU DON'T WANT TO RESPECT THE CONSTITUTION THEN I ADVISE _YOU_ TO LEAVE ASSHOLE

Originally posted by Mongoose
Rights violations, collusions with media...where do you come up with this bullcrap?

I could start citing sources - but you wouldn't believe it anyway - because of cognitive dissonance

but you just proved one of them in higher up in your own post

Originally posted by Mongoose
Let me pull a "Kazan":  irrelevant, illogical, and inconceivable.  America is swinging back toward conservative values at long last; either learn to live with it or leave the country.

yes "Conservative Values"

Hatred, Bigotry, Lies and the violation of human rights



I WILL RESORT TO FORCE OF ARMS TO SAVE THIS COUNTRY FROM THE LIKES OF YOU

[mitac]

Mongoose, with all due respect, but you're the perfect example for what the average European sees as a typical American these days. Cowboy-style, yeah.

Apart from that : I once had an interesting conversation with an exchange student from the US, must have been back when the invasion in Iraq was underway. She defended the US policy, telling me that "liberating" Iraq was a good means to fortify democracy in the region, creating a paradigm for other states, a "safe haven". And now?

Just a thought.

[Kazan]

One of our greatest political minds once said "You cannot spread democracy at the point of a gun"


-------------------

oh and BTW Mongoose - since it's ok to ignore the constitution and shuve our religions down each other's throats then i should start pushing for laws making it illegal to be a christian, on penalty of death by firing squad

[Rictor]

Mongoose, buddy, I love ya, but you're talking out of your ass.
Here's a tip: if you're starting to sound like Rush Limbaugh, it may be time to take a step back and re-examine your views, how you came to hold them, and if they are based in fact or empty rhetoric.

The basic question, to my mind, that you and others need to ask yourself if "Should America dominate the world". If the answer is no, I don't reasonably see how you can support Bush (that does not, repeat not, mean that Kerry is different, or much different in any case).

If the answer is yes, congratulations, you're an imperialist: see you on the battlefield.

[Deepblue]

MADNESS!!!



Politics suck.

[Mongoose]

Fair enough, then.  I'm an imperialist.  I want America to continue to remain the world's greatest superpower.  I see nothing wrong with this view; as an American citizen, I naturally want America to continue to prosper.  And as much as this may shock some of you, I agree with most of what Limbaugh says.

Kazan, bashing my head repeatedly against a brick wall would produce something more cogent and effective than any discussion with you could.  I give up; you're so wrapped up in some "quest for logic" that you're barely even human anymore.  Congratulations, Mr. Spock.  Here's a little hint:  the world isn't based on rational thought or logic.  If you ignore the role that human emotion plays in this world, you're walking a very dangerous path.  I know you don't believe in God, but I thank him every day that people with similar viewpoints to me hold elected office in this country, and that no one as crazy as you does.

[Kazan]

Mongoose you're a freaking fascist - you're openly and willingly violating the US Constitution

If i was in Office i would be protecting your rights - I would make sure christians are not imposing on muslims, atheists, agnostics, that mulsims aren't imposing on christians, atheists, agnostics.etc that atheists/agnostics are not imposing on christians, mulsims, etc

But you - you are ****ting on the constitution - you are imposing YOUR FORM of christianity on all other people be there some other form of christianity, or some other religion all togeather

YOU ARE A FASCIST

[Liberator]

Originally posted by Kazan
I GOT NEWS FOR YOU: He is the worst president in US History

I'm sorry that dubious honor belongs to Jimmy Carter.

[MatthewPapa]

Originally posted by Liberator


I'm sorry that dubious honor belongs to Jimmy Carter.

AMEN.

[Kazan]

Liberator: so you claim - but you don't look at the facts behind bush - you believe the lies

[Black Wolf]

Originally posted by Rictor
I agree with humanitarian interventions IN THEORY, but every single case so far has been a cover for dominating the "liberated" country.

Not so. See East Timor and the Solomon Islands.

[Ford Prefect]

America is another blip on the timeline. As is the case with all world powers, the grace with which it fades will depend on the enlightenment of its population. Few empires pass this test with flying colors.

[ionia23]

The 'humanitarian' angle.  THis is one of my favorite subjects to **** with.

The thing in Iraq never had anything to do with being a 'humanitarian' mission.  That's a smokescreen for the true objectives.

1. Disposing of a 'potential' threat to US security interests.
2. The acquisition of reconstruction projects to rebuild the country's infrastructure (see: Halliburton)
3. Cheap oil to pay the bill for rebuilding.

American Joe would be 'rewarded' with a whopping 5 cent decrease in the cost of gasoline per gallon, but the real winners would be the oil companies and their associated refineries.  Iraq would be a huge asset for them.  Of course, we'd have to have a more 'civilized' environment to work within (see: Narn/Centauri war).

If you want to see US security forces declared for a purely humanitarian cause, then why the **** aren't they where they are needed? (Sudan, Rwanda, Sierra-Leone)???

Oh, I forgot, no profit.

Voting for Bush was a sign of brain damage.  

Bush 2004: Rise Of The 'Rednecks'.

Racism, bigotry, and bullying at it's finest.  Way to go.  Everything that happens to us for the next four years falls on YOUR heads.

[Mongoose]

Oh, and I suppose Saddam's genocide of millions and record of mental instability had nothing to do with it?  And, big surprise, once again we have the "Bush voters are brain-damaged" line.  At least get creative.  I assure you that I have no mental deficiencies, and yet I proudly voted for Bush.  Do you really think that the cardboard cut-out that is Kerry would do a better job than Bush?  Personally, I'm looking forward to the next four years.  The world will come out of Bush's next term better off, even though certain countries may deny this by pulling the proverbial wool over their eyes.

/cue Kazan in 3, 2, 1...