[Taristin]

Originally posted by Black Wolf


As a general rule though, very few of them realize the country extends past sydney (or occasionally melbourne). I doubt most of them even realize we have Tasmania, so I doubt it'll affect you too much. Or me for that matter - I mean, there's a western half of the continent? WTF?

Shh. Don't tell them there's a Melbourne! I wanna go there before it goes downhill.

[Roanoke]

I was rading in the paper some of the dirty tricks employed by both parties. You know, racial minorites being told they don't "haved to" vote if they don't want to, Democrat voters being urged to wait till tomorrow to vote (when it's too late) by Republican press etc.

The whole thing stinks. How can the champions of Democracy have such a ****ty system ?

[Taristin]

That's more of a rhetorical question, I suppose.

[Rictor]

Cause they're 200 years behind the times. Back then, the US really was the best system, but many advancements have been made since then, however, many Americans remain infelxible on the issue. My guess is that this is because there are those who would stand to lose a lot if the status quo were upset, such as giving third parties a fighting chance.

[Taristin]

What I really want to know, is how many Americans actually qualified as being skilled workers? And how many weren't...

[Roanoke]

I think it's fair to say Florida was in the bag, before anyone even started, this year.

[Cabbie]

Funny timing that is. As I was reading this topic I got this from my pal:

[Liberator]

Originally posted by Rictor
Its quite simple: majority rule.

It's quite simple:  We are a Repulic, not a Democracy.

Besides, majority rule doesn't mean it's the right way, more often than not it's Mob Rule.(Mob as in Mob Mentality, not the Mafia)

Originally posted by Rictor
Now aside from that, I personally believe that city dwellers, for a whole host of reasons, are more educated and informed, and thus better able to make decisions on governance, but I would still think the electoral college is corrupt even if it was reversed, and gave progressives an unfair advantage.

You realize that originally voting was reserved for Landowners with city dwellers being largely left out.

Example of city folk ignorance:  There is a well-known NY-based radio talk show that has a segment called "Man On The Street Thrusdays" where the program director goes down onto the street and lets the people walking by talk to the host.  The host, granted it was mostly as a joke, was able to convince 7 out of 10 that the Democratic candidate was named "Stu Ped" and they were enthusiastic about voting for him.  They too couldn't actually give a reason why the would vote for "Stu Ped", just that he wasn't Bush.  

Now tell me again who is fit to decide governance?

[Rictor]

Alright, so you're a republic. However, can you give me one reason why the US shouldn't move towards democracy? As I've said, the Republican system was the best one around, at the time it was invented. However, that was several hundred years ago.

And tell me what the concept of democracy if not "mob rule", in all matters where the public rule applies. What I mean by this is that in matters of government, the majority rules. Thats what democracy means. Now in perfect world, self-determination would be down to the individual, so that no one would be forced to be ruled by the majority, but since we live in the era of the nation state, thats how it is.

Within that context, majority rule is the fairest way. One person, one vote, anything else is an artificial way to subvert democratic values. If you have valid reasons why you think a republican system is superior, by all means share the,, but the way I see it, the electoral college is an unfair way to rig the system in favour of conservativism.

(and for the record, you are from now on prohibited from talking about "spreading democracy" or any such nonsese, or using it to justify war)

edit: as for the radio show, thats completely meaningless. Its anecdotal evidence. A Canadian TV show host was able to go to America and convince most people that the Canadian prime minister was Tim Horton (so you know, Tim Horton was a famous hockey player, now dead, and Tim Hortons is a famous coffee store franchise). I think he even convinced Bush's office to send a letter to Prime Minister Horton wishing him a happy birthday. You can fool most people like that, it doesn't really prove anything.

edit2: oops, it wasn't Tim Horton, it was Prime Minster Poutine (a food, consisting of french fries, gravy and cheese)
http://www.angelfire.com/celeb/rickmercer/poutine.html

[Thorn]

http://mena.typepad.com/dollarshort/2004/11/canada_20.html

[Kazan]

Liberator, Mongoose

**** both of you anticonstitution hicks

[Kazan]

rictor majority rule can be a VERY BAD hting, as evidenced by bush's re-election

there was suppose to be this thing called the constitution to protect us from the bad things of majority rule - but alas it's treated as toilet paper now

[Roanoke]

Originally posted by Liberator
They too couldn't actually give a reason why the would vote for "Stu Ped", just that he wasn't Bush.  

that's enough for of people....

[Kamikaze]

Originally posted by Kazan
Liberator, Mongoose

**** both of you anticonstitution hicks

Be nicer to the fundies, they have feelings too.

[Rictor]

Since Bush actually did get a majority, I may not like his presidency, but I am forced to acknowledge that it is legitimiate within a democratic system. It may not be easy, but you have to face the fact that a majority of Americans either support Bush or don't care either way. Even if he commited fraud, its unlikely that he gained 3 million votes.

As I said, in a better world, anyone would be free to disasscociate themselves from any governement, but thats not realistic at present. However, what I can and do disagree with Bush on is that now, once elected, how much power should he have over both the people at home and the people of the world. Needless to say, I think that American power should be drastically decreased abroad, but Bush is also overstepping his authority at home (PATRIOT, ban on gay marriage etc).

My opinion is that whoever rules, government power should be decreased significantly.

And Lib, I'm still interested to hear your arguements in support of the electoral college.

[Deepblue]

As far as the radio show is concerned thats not a very objective source. Thats Hanity.



Politics are stu ped.

[Mongoose]

Originally posted by Kazan
rictor majority rule can be a VERY BAD hting, as evidenced by bush's re-election

there was suppose to be this thing called the constitution to protect us from the bad things of majority rule - but alas it's treated as toilet paper now

Oh, so the beast shows his true colors.  Yes, majority rule is terrible.  Poor, poor Kazan.  America spoke, and they didn't agree with you.  And as much as you say to the contrary, this election has not violated the Constitution.  You blame Bush for lying, yet you lie in every post you make.  Keep spewing your uber-leftist venom; you're not going to convince anyone of anything.

P.S.  I'm no fundie.

[Zarax]

Interesting thing these days...
Political propaganda reshaped the use of some words:
Liberal
Communist
Leftist
Pacifist (at least here in Italy)

They are now treated as insults...
I will point that now you miss the other half of the sphere so that these words should be insults as well:
Conservative
Liberist
Democracy "exporter"
Theologist.

It's getting to the neolanguage writtent by Orwell...

[HeX]

In Canada, Conservative and Liberal ARE pretty much insults.

[Liberator]

You don't get it Kazan, YOU LOST.  

You're guy showed a great deal of class in the way he conceded, he consciously chose not to drag this out and while I don't have a lot of good things to say about John F. Kerry, I do applaud him for the way he handled the loss.

You on the other hand are acting like a petulant, spoiled-rotten brat who is throwing a temper tantrum because he didn't get his way.  

The "main stream" of your party is composed of nutjobs who are increasingly living in their own little dreamworlds, and call everyone who contradicts them liars, fools, ect.  Don't be like them Kaz, I'm begging you, be better than them.