Originally posted by Liberator
Rictor, I don't mind some of their positions. It's just when they stoop to lying on the scale MM has to try and prove their point that I begin to have problems. MM himself is one of the biggest hypocrites in history. He preaches and proclaims the greatness of communism/socialism and then procedes to make millions using capitalism thus neutralizing his arguments. And I apologize about the part about the politicians, I didn't finish my thought. What I meant was that the Democratic leadership has been increasingly pandering to the far, far, wacko left. And their the ones that are telling US that WE have to compromise our principles because we won, when it should be the other way 'round.
1. Look, I'm tired of hearing this. Go look up the words socialism and communism in a dictionary. No one, not even Nader, no one is preaching support for socialism, much less communism. Those words mean very specific things, and trust me, Michael Moore is so far from socialism that he might as well be on a different planet. You act like anyone who is one millionth of a degree left of Bush is a commie. On the left/right scale, the Dems are either in the centre of slightly to the right, while Michael Moore is a moderate leftist. Every time you call someone a socialist (or Kazan calls someone a faschist) I cringe, because this is exactly what Orwell was talking about, the bastardization of language to suit a political goal. You label someone a "socialst" which means you can neatly disregard everything the have to say, and all their opinions become instantly worthless. Please try not to do that, its very frustrating.
2. The Democratic party leadership has moved to the right, not the left. The right wing of Democratic party, those who were in charge in recent times (though this may change in the wake of Kerry's defeat) have been 1 degree left of the Republicans. If you think that the Dems have recentlly been catering to the far left, you have no compass by which to judge. Everything said and done by the Dems recently could plausibly have have come from a moderate Republican like John McCain.
Do you remember Bush's speech at the RNC, about how Kerry is not the candidate of conservative values? Lets do one for the Dems.
If you are in the wallets of multinational corporations, you are not supporting progressive values. If you have routinely voted for every war and act of agression that has passed your desk, you are not supporting progressive values. If you voted for the PATRIOT act, you are not supporting progressive values. If you favour drug prohibition, especially for very mild drugs like marijuana, you are not supporting progressive values. If you believe that the government has the right to tell someone they can or can not get married, you are not supporting progressive values. If you believe that the US should dominate as much of the world as possible, you are not supporting progressive values. If you believe in profits before people, you are not supporting progressive values. If you favour a military/industrial complex that stuffs the coffers of military tech companies and is far, far larger and more powerful than necessary, you are not supporting progressive values.
Got that? Michael Moore is a far better representation of the Democratic base than the stooges in charge of the Democratic Party. He and many other progressive chose to vote for Kerry not because he represents their beliefs, but because at least he's not Bush. Now that he's been defeated, maybe some actual work will get done to reform the Democrats and kick out the wannabe Republicans.
3. As for Bush's victory, stop acting like its a historic landslide. He won about 52% of the vote, and that does not count all those people who didn't vote. Which means, about 35% of the country actually voted for him. Thats not "a historic mandate". In most other democratic countries, that would be considered insuffienct to form a governemt, and a re-election would be held. And even this was becasue Kerry is a complete moron, who stands for nothing and shows it. Bush handed the victory to him, and Kerry, through his complete ineptitude kindly handed it back. Reagan and Nixon, they cleaned house. Look at the map, there was literally one state that went to the Democrats. Bush may look good on the map, but thats because the red regions are less densely populated. The popular vote shows a much more realistic picture.
