[kode]

Originally posted by karajorma

All the people I've heard talking about it have claimed that you don't need a net connection to play the game once you've registered it. Have you tried just firewalling the game now that it's registered?

I heard you can turn the update check off or something, that's what it wants to connect for.

[Styxx]

Buy it, suckers, buy it! Serves you right for giving money to those bastards, you know.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by karajorma


If you hadn't heard how bad it actually was then I suppose I can't blame you.

All the people I've heard talking about it have claimed that you don't need a net connection to play the game once you've registered it. Have you tried just firewalling the game now that it's registered?

Unless you disconnect your network connection (which I believe requires some people to physically disconnect if they have an 'always on' connection), you don't even get the option to run Steam in 'offline' mode.  firewalls don't work - it just fails and dies trying to connect.

Other thing is that it seems you need to keep both Steam and the game up to date; so you can't perm-block Steam and still get patches, and you obviously can't just uninstall Steam on its own.

It feels (note; feels - I'm not saying it's a code-rinning VM as you get with the likes of Java) as if Steam is some sort of VM-esque middleware; you can only play HL2 (and I presume forthcoming Valve stuff, and also the modding tools) if you have it installed.  It seems to have this horrible constricting 'lock-in' to the actual game.  Plus you don't know if the occasional (sometimes frequent) stutter and crash is from the game or the still-running Steam.

I had honestly expected Steam wouldn't be as bad as some of the rants I've heard.  I also expected I'd only need to use it once to validate the game and then could remove it.

[Flipside]

What concerns me more is what happens when, for example, Valve decide in 5 years time that they can't be bothered to keep the Steam servers running, or the company crashes or the like?

Does that mean that every single owner of HL2 must simply 'accept' that they cannot play the game they paid for?

[Gloriano]

Originally posted by Flipside
[B
Does that mean that every single owner of HL2 must simply 'accept' that they cannot play the game they paid for? [/B]

I think Valve would release patch if that happens (that you don't need steam anymore to play HL2)

[aldo_14]

More likely you'd need to wait for someone to write a little client to mimic the steam servers on your local machine.

[Styxx]

Originally posted by aldo_14
More likely you'd need to wait for someone to write a little client to mimic the steam servers on your local machine.

Well, there's already a Steam emulator out, apparently, so... But according to Valve, it's illegal.

[Flipside]

There is of course the little question of trying to completely sidestep any responsibility for the security of either your computer or their own servers, whilst still requiring you to have a connection to them.

Just sounds like such a handy excuse to put something in there in the first place.

I still remember that whole RealPlayer thing

[Jetmech Jr.]

I am soooo happy that I decided to never buy Valve's (STEAM required) games. Cheers.

P.S. My sympathies to you, Flip, and to anyone else forced to use STEAM(ing Pile of ****)

[karajorma]

Originally posted by aldo_14
Unless you disconnect your network connection (which I believe requires some people to physically disconnect if they have an 'always on' connection), you don't even get the option to run Steam in 'offline' mode.  firewalls don't work - it just fails and dies trying to connect.

Other thing is that it seems you need to keep both Steam and the game up to date; so you can't perm-block Steam and still get patches, and you obviously can't just uninstall Steam on its own.

It feels (note; feels - I'm not saying it's a code-rinning VM as you get with the likes of Java) as if Steam is some sort of VM-esque middleware; you can only play HL2 (and I presume forthcoming Valve stuff, and also the modding tools) if you have it installed.  It seems to have this horrible constricting 'lock-in' to the actual game.  Plus you don't know if the occasional (sometimes frequent) stutter and crash is from the game or the still-running Steam.

I had honestly expected Steam wouldn't be as bad as some of the rants I've heard.  I also expected I'd only need to use it once to validate the game and then could remove it.

Now this is odd. I've heard several times that you can install Steam on one machine, register and then go play HL2 on another machine without installing Steam. I always found that odd cause what I'd heard seems to agree with you.

Diid you download your copy or buy it in the shops?

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by karajorma


Now this is odd. I've heard several times that you can install Steam on one machine, register and then go play HL2 on another machine without installing Steam. I always found that odd cause what I'd heard seems to agree with you.

Diid you download your copy or buy it in the shops?

Retail copy, of course.  For the dl-ed copy, I wouldn't have quite so much a quibble with it.

[aldo_14]

NB: I mentioned this on a bluesnews thread, someone pointed out there is this clause;

BECAUSE SOME STATES OR JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR THE LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, IN SUCH STATES OR JURISDICTIONS, VALVE, ITS LICENSORS, AND THEIR AFFILIATES LIABILITY SHALL BE LIMITED TO THE FULL EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW.

Dunno if that covers the UK / EU / whatever liability issue. If so, I guess it'll be the Americans who are getting shafted, not us?

[demon442]

Well, seems that Valve's gone Bush on us.  It's a sad day when this sort of thing happens.  Especially after the gaming community practically handed those hackers over to the authorities.

The way I see it, this could lead in two directions.  If STEAM succeeds and people buy into that load of bull, every major game producing/developing firm will create a similar system claiming security purposes.  On the other hand, if STEAM fails, we'll be short one of the most influential companies of our time.  Welcome to the legal age everbody, enjoy your stay, but you'd better have a good lawyer if you do.

[Liberator]

STEAM failing doesn't mean that Valve would be dead, just that they actually had a bad idea and could execute on it properly.

[SadisticSid]

Originally posted by demon442
Well, seems that Valve's gone Bush on us.  It's a sad day when this sort of thing happens.  Especially after the gaming community practically handed those hackers over to the authorities.

The way I see it, this could lead in two directions.  If STEAM succeeds and people buy into that load of bull, every major game producing/developing firm will create a similar system claiming security purposes.  On the other hand, if STEAM fails, we'll be short one of the most influential companies of our time.  Welcome to the legal age everbody, enjoy your stay, but you'd better have a good lawyer if you do.

Steam won't succeed. If it was going to there wouldn't be such an uproar and people taking the damn thing back to the shops. I've seen three people making use of GAME's refund policy with HL2 so far in just over a week. And personally I regret buying the game - it wasn't really that good - and will probably warez the next title Valve puts out.

And I don't share your assessment of Valve being that much of an influential company. They have produced one great and one good game but it's taken them a decade to do so, and that's with an insanely high budget and supposedly the cream of the gaming industry. Other companies (e.g. Bioware) have done much more with much less, I feel.

[Liberator]

BioWare > Valve

[Flipside]

It seems that, yes, Valve put something in their license which disclaims their disclaimer if they aren't allowed to pull that stunt, which they cannot in the UK, a consumer is protected by rights that fall outside of their control

America has things like the 'Lemon Laws' iirc? Do they cover digital media?

Edit : Oh, and it is unlikely to cause a mass return of goods, after all, how many people read the EULA when they install a game? And Steam only has to last long enough... for 90% of game players, if Steam vanished in 5 years, they wouldn't even notice.

[aldo_14]

I doubt I'd be playing half life 2 in 6 months time, let alone 5 years.

That said, Valve have promised a 'surprise' next week; maybe they will even release something that will change my opinion (fat ****ing chance, odds are it'll be another way to screw me over)

[Flipside]

Exactly Aldo, but the sad fact is that it is people like us that would suffer if that were the case. It would be those who Mod the game and create new content.

I can just imagine how I'd feel if I spent all day working on a new ship, booted up Freespace to test it, only to be told I can't play because Interplay have taken their servers down for a weekends maintenance, or someone from admin has borrowed them for a LAN party or whatever

[aldo_14]

Yeah, apparently the free version of XSI Valve give away as a modelling tool has its exporter capped at 2000-4000 polys; i.e. it's impossible to create retail-quality models using the free tool.

So I've heard, anyways.