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Offline FireCrack

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Quote
Originally posted by Eviscerator
Battlecruiser???


well a battlecruiser is a smaller faster lighter cruiser.
actualy, mabye not.
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Offline Zarax

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Not really.
A battlecruiser is essentially (in real world terms) an heavy cruiser that sacrifices armor in order to get extra speed and heavier weaponry.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2004, 03:54:41 pm by 511 »
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Offline NGTM-1R

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A battlecruiser is a ship with heavy cruiser speed, size, and armor, and battleship armament. Ideally, anyways. More often it's a ship with heavy cruiser speed, heavy cruiser size, light cruiser armor, and battleship armament.

But yeah. They were meant to get the big guns around faster then a battleship. They don't last long against a true battleship, but they're death on anything light cruiser-sized or smaller. Heavy cruisers can sometimes stand up to them successfully, sometimes not.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2004, 03:55:06 pm by 2191 »
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Offline Grimloq

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i thought designations were based on size, firepower, and function mostly.. meh, whatever.

the iceni was custom built and designed by bosch. it HAS no designation. thats why its called 'NTF Iceni'. pilots call it whatever they want, though command seems to stick to 'frigate' mostly. it really doesnt matter on that matter. its a 'command ship'. lets leave it at that.

for those of you who care (not many...) this is the designation system *I* go by (it works...)

**F fighter, small strikecraft.  the mainstay of FS warfare
**B bomber, large strikecraft. designed to take out larger vessels with their heavier armor and large payloads of heavy missiles
**S support ship, rearms fighters. can carry boarding parties and carry small cargoes
**R recovery ship, (~200-300m long) used to recover escape pods and small groups of strikecraft (2-3 wings at a time)
**C cruiser, smallish ship ~300m long usually. designed to support larger ships, and fight fighters. fairly multipurpose, fairly fast
**Cv corvette. larger than cruisers. designed to take the place of destroyers, so they can be more along the lines of command vessles than warships. corvettes can take down most anything. VERY multipurpose
**Fr freighter. used to carry cargo to and from systems
**T transport. carries personell or cargo directly on board. can be used as boarding craft or shuttles.
**M medical ship. specifically designed to transport medical personell/medical patients around. medical ships are protected under the beta aquilae convention, even if under military control.
**Fg frigate. slightly larger than corvettes, frigates generally have longer-ranged weapons than most ships. they generally accompany larger ships in escort roles.
**Sc science vessel. used for R&D and other scientific work. science vessels are generally protected under BETAC, as they are usually run by civillians
**D destroyer. ~2km long usually. designed to take out anything smaller than itself. generally carrry fighters. a single destroyer can work by itself for great periods of time.
**SD superdestroyer. anywehre from 2-4km long, usually. designed to be versital, if slow and difficult to deplot. they make one hell of a blockade ship, though...
**Dn dreadnought. dreadnoughts carry at least one main forward cannon. often used for planetary bombardments, and can do tremendous damage in short order to ships.
**Bs battleship. battleships are fully self-sustaining, as they can provide/harvest to their own needs. they are usually slightly larger than destroyers, and serve as remote supply bases/forward bases. they often carry a large contingent of fighters, and are fairly weakly armed.
**Bc battlecruiser. spanning ~3km long usually, they are designed to be geared towards a specific goal. however, they are easily modified to suit other goals. they sometimes carry a small fighter contingent
**Ca carrier. specifically designed to carry and move fighters from place to place. although destroyers can also do this, carriers can carry more fighters, and free up destroyers from ferrying ships around.
**CS command ship. any size, these are usually slow and underarmed. they can, however, deploy hundreds of fighters.
**J juggernought. juggernoughts can easily take on any other ship. spanning about 5 or 6 km, they are the largest spacefaring vessels built by the GTVA
**SJ superjuggernought. superjuggernoughts can span 25km, and the only one ever seen was the SSJ Gigas, a shivan ship. the shivans are the only ones who could feasably build such a large ship.

SSSSSJ Stupid: a 5000km long ship designed by a n00b. it is armed with 7000 heavy beam cannons, and has 999999999999999999999999 hitpoints. :D if the SSSSSJ Stupid is not dealt with soon, it may spell the doom for the GTVA ;) *snicker*


thats the list i go by. it works well enough for models. armaments and stats are always easy to tweak :)
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Offline WeatherOp

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Well said, hey is anyone gonna make the Ultra-Juggernuat, that is 10,000 km long?:p
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Offline boewolf

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Would that fit into the game peramiters?

 

Offline WeatherOp

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Don't know,:confused: anyone wanna try.:lol:
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Offline Grimloq

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im game ;) lol.
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Offline boewolf

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could you imagine the amount of turrets needed to protect a thing like that...

 

Offline WeatherOp

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Yeah, close to 30,001.:D  11,000 heavy beam weapons, 11,000 flak, 8,000 anti-fighter beam. And one beam more powerful than the Death Star's. Evoprates whole Galaxys.:lol:
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Offline TrashMan

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Quote
Originally posted by Grimloq

**Bs battleship. battleships are fully self-sustaining, as they can provide/harvest to their own needs. they are usually slightly larger than destroyers, and serve as remote supply bases/forward bases. they often carry a large contingent of fighters, and are fairly weakly armed.
 
:wtf: :wtf:

Battleships shouldn't carry a large contingent of fighters.
Battleship = armor & weapons + more armor & weapons + even more armor & weapons. No fighters....

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Offline Eviscerator

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Gents, the term "Battlecruiser" was employed strictly to replace the term "Dreadnaught" when that term fell out of favor.

A Dreadnaught was the precursor to the true Battleship, starting with the HMS Dreadnaught that started it all. The ship was larger and more heavily armed than a Heavy Cruiser.

When true Battleships entered service, "Dreadnaught" was replaced by "Battlecruiser" and describes a ship that is larger, more heavily armed and armored than a Heavy Cruiser, but less so than a Battleship. Currently, the only active Battlecruiser is the Kirov Class operated by the Russian Navy, Northern Fleet. That is, if they can even afford to operate at all. Those Battlecruisers that were less armored than Heavy Cruisers were so because they were originally old Dreadnaughts, like the HMS Hood, and were no longer up to the armor standards being employed by more advanced Heavy Cruisers.

In most Sci-Fi works that include warships, a Dreadnaught describes a massive ship that fullfills both the role of Battleship and Carrier.

I use this, skipping the small craft:

CR: Corvette. Corvette's have always been small and speedy patrol vessels larger than PT Boats, but smaller than Frigates. They are primarily used by the Italian, Argentinian, Norweigian, French navies to patrol coast lines, hunt subsmarines, provide AAA support to larger ships, or in a pinch attack larger vessels. The US and Royal Navies refer to this class of ship as a Cutter. I feel that the ship higlighted in this thread is a good example of a Corvette. The Shivan Vindhychal is another good example, IMO

FG: Frigate. Frigates are small vessels smaller and more agile than Destroyers. They are primarily used to hunt subs and provide AAA support to a Battle Group. They also make excellant escorts, and shipping lane control craft. I added two turrets to a Satis once to make a Frigate. A good example. I also think that Aldo's Piranah and Njord are good examples of Frigates, despite being a little large for the class.

DD: Destroyer. Destroyers were first dreamed up to take advantage of new torpedo technology after Naval treaties limited tjhe number of Battleships and Battle and Heavy Cruisers that a nation could possess. All naval thinking at the time revolved around what was called "The Grand Battle" where it was thought that two massive opposing fleets would meet and slug it out with guns. This is before the airplane and the Carrier figured prominently in their thinking. The treaty did not limit the number of smaller vessels a nation could have since it was thought that such small vessels would have no or little value in "The Grand Battle". Nations used the new torpedo technology mounted on smaller vessels to exploit this loophole. A torpedo cares not the size or grandeur of a ship, and made great Battleship killers. They small vessels were thus originally called "Battleship-Destroyers" but the name was later shortened to just Destroyer. This meaning have generally been lost to time, however, as the Destroyer's role has changed immensely. They now act as escorts, ASW and AA vessels, but can still attack larger ships with missiles and torpedos. The name now describes a class of small multi-task vessels and for that reason I see no logic in calling an Orion or Hectate a Destroyer just because it was allegedly designed to take out Cruisers. The Fenris is a perfect example of a Destroyer, especially if you arm its main turret with torpedos. :D Slightly larger and more powerful vessels called Destroyer Leaders or Heavy Destroyers were also designed. You *could* conceivably refer to the Aeolus or Leviathan as such, altough I personally prefer to lump them in the next class. The Cain and the Lilith would fit here too.

CL: Light Cruiser. Pretty self explanatory. Some would say that these are the first class of the "ships of the line", others disagree. In wars past, many of these served support roles like dedicated escort or AAA duty. Some were just enlarged and rearmed Heavy Destroyers, and thus had little armor protection. Still others were designed to fight it out on the line with Heavy Cruisers. I would say that the Mentu, Aeolus, Rakasha, and Leviathan are good examples, but my fav example is Hamano's Ticonderoga.

CLM or CAM: Missile or Torpedo Cruiser: Missile or Guided Missile Cruisers are usually built to provide Air Defense for the fleet, but in most Sci FI circles, are a light or heavy cruiser that is armed with missiles or torpedos instead of guns. Stratcomm has come up with good examples of these IIRC.

CA: Heavy Cruiser. The first true "Ships of the Line" Heavy Cruisers serve only one purpose: To pound opposing vessels into so much scrap. The Deimos and Sobek are perfect examples.

CS: Strike Cruiser. A designation in Sci Fi circles used to describe a heavy cruiser that carries a small number of strike craft like fighters or bombers. The Moloch fits here.

CC: Command Cruiser. Class I added to describe several of the AWACS capable cruisers that the community has come up with.

CB: Battlecruiser. The fall in between the Heavy Cruiser and the Battleship, Battlecruisers were the first battlewagons built. Originally refered to as Dreadnaughts. Soem would say that the Iceni fits here, but I would usually disagree. The Phobos and the Nike fit here very well.

BB: Battleship. We all know what a Battleship is. In the real world BB's carried a couple planes, or none at all. In Sci Fi, they may carry a defense squadron or two, but usually none at all. I would put the Iceni here, as a smaller, fast BB. Anybody remember the PVD Cobra? I would call that a Battleship ( we are re-doing it, btw ). There have been some other good examples around the community too.

CV: Carrier. We all know what a carrier does. Carries strike craft to the battle area and has few anti-ship weapons except those for defense. The designation by the US is CV for fixed wing, or CH for rotary wing carriers. An N is added for nuclear. I have dropped those for obvious reasons. There are lots of different kinds of carriers. Small Carrier Escorts (CVE), whose job is to provide defense squadrons for convoys and larger warships that lack such support of their own (Aldos Gryphon is a good example, I think); Light Carriers (CVL) that are smaller than the larger carriers but provide the same sort of capabilities but on a smaller scale; Strike Carriers (CVS), like the Orion, Typhon, and Demon that provide large numbers of bombers and fighters to any offensive and defensive effort, and can also fight if needed; and the massive Fleet Carriers (CVF), like Aldo's Warlock, that form the nucleus of any Fleet.

DN: Dreadnaught. In contemporary Sci Fi, this describes a massive vessel that performs the duties of both carrier and battleship, although differing definitions exist. Hectate and Ravana are perfect examples.

SD. Super Dreadnaught. We all know what this is. Lucifer and Hades would be good examples.

JN: Juggeranaught. Same as above. Colossus, Sath good examples.

SJ: Super Juggernaught. Describes the massive 10+ kilometer vessels that the community has come up with.

CS: Command Ship. Same as above, but those vessels designed to be flagships more than frontline vessels.

I have also considered a "Planet Killer" class to describe these types of vessels that myself and several others have made.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2004, 07:28:06 pm by 940 »
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Offline Grimloq

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Quote
Originally posted by Eviscerator
CS: Command Ship. Same as above, but those vessels designed to be flagships more than frontline vessels.


didnt i SAY that they werent? :wtf: oops :)

Quote
Battleships shouldn't carry a large contingent of fighters.
Battleship = armor & weapons + more armor & weapons + even more armor & weapons. No fighters....


i SAID thats what I go by :p the future hasnt happened yet. for all we know, battlecruisers might become fighters... i dunno.
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Offline WeatherOp

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Did the term Juggernaut come from the Navy like Cruiser, and Dreadnought? or was it just made up.
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Offline Grimloq

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a 'juggernought' is a noun. its defined as 'something of great power' or something like that.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Quote
Originally posted by Eviscerator
Gents, the term "Battlecruiser" was employed strictly to replace the term "Dreadnaught" when that term fell out of favor.

A Dreadnaught was the precursor to the true Battleship, starting with the HMS Dreadnaught that started it all. The ship was larger and more heavily armed than a Heavy Cruiser.

When true Battleships entered service, "Dreadnaught" was replaced by "Battlecruiser" and describes a ship that is larger, more heavily armed and armored than a Heavy Cruiser, but less so than a Battleship. Currently, the only active Battlecruiser is the Kirov Class operated by the Russian Navy, Northern Fleet. That is, if they can even afford to operate at all. Those Battlecruisers that were less armored than Heavy Cruisers were so because they were originally old Dreadnaughts, like the HMS Hood, and were no longer up to the armor standards being employed by more advanced Heavy Cruisers.


That would be a no. The battlecruiser was one of many experimental cruiser types. Originally there was only one cruiser type. Sometime before WWI, people began experimenting, creating the heavy, light, armored, and battle cruisers. The armored cruiser is something of the reverse of a battlecruiser: it is a ship with heavy cruiser speed, size, and armament, but battleship armor. It, and the battlecruiser, were mostly extinct by World War II. The Hood was built for WWI, but completed too late to participate.

Battlecruisers fought at Jutland, which was the battle of the Dreadnaught-type ships, so the class existed before you seem to believe.
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Offline Nuke

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i perfer to use the freespace system. though we need 3 new classes.

a class midrange between criuser and 'vette (battlecriuser?)
midrange between 'vette and destroyer (frigate?)
carriers (any size)

destroyer and juggernaught could ues the prefix super if using a size bigger than normal.
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Offline Eviscerator

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Quote
Originally posted by ngtm1r


That would be a no. The battlecruiser was one of many experimental cruiser types. Originally there was only one cruiser type. Sometime before WWI, people began experimenting, creating the heavy, light, armored, and battle cruisers. The armored cruiser is something of the reverse of a battlecruiser: it is a ship with heavy cruiser speed, size, and armament, but battleship armor. It, and the battlecruiser, were mostly extinct by World War II. The Hood was built for WWI, but completed too late to participate.

Battlecruisers fought at Jutland, which was the battle of the Dreadnaught-type ships, so the class existed before you seem to believe.


Sorry, that would be a yes. The experimental types you are refering to did indeed birth the Dreadnaught class first pioneered by the designers of the HMS Dreadnaught. These vessels did indeed originate before WWI, and did participate in combat before the Great War. The bulk of the ships of the line of the US White Fleet, that engaged the Spanish Navy during the Spanish-American War, were of this type of vessel.

Historians often refer to Dreadnaughts as Battlecruiser because just as I said the term "Dreadnaught" was replaced by the term "Battlecruiser".  

Historians love to refer to the USS Maine as a Battleship too, although the Battleship class did not exist at the time.

The Hood was indeed a Dreadnaught, later reclassed Battlecruiser, completed to late for WWI. I do not see what her combat record has to do with anything. Does it matter that she was sunk by the Bismark in less than 2 minutes?

Anyway, among my educational accolades is a BS in Military History, Virgina Military Institute, Class of '94. I am pretty darn sure that I know what I am talking about.
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Offline Raptor

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Hmmm, bits of a Kushan heavy corvette, the Defiant, and even a tiny hint of the Millenium Falcon.  I like:nod::yes:

Not sure about the tail, and the vertical engines, but over all very good.  The two prongs from the side could do with being toned down a little though.

I've got to get to work on that Defiant/Falcon craft design I've got kicking around....

And I'd go with either Gunboat (GTGb) or Gunship (GTGs) for something that size.
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Offline Nuke

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id only opt for the term gunboat/ship if the vessel has massive primary firepower. a ship of similar size with the firepower of any other bomber is still just an oversized bomber. the 200mm gatling guns on my ship, can slice a cain in half in just a few seconds. :D
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