[redmenace]

President Franklin D. Roosevelt: Yesterday, December 7, 1941—a date which will live in infamy—the United States of American was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the Empire of Japan.

The United States was at peace with that nation, and, at the solicitation of Japan, was still in conversation with its government and its emperor looking toward the maintenance of peace in the Pacific. Indeed, one hour after Japanese air squadrons had commenced bombing in Oahu, the Japanese ambassador to the United States and his colleague delivered to the secretary of state a formal reply to a recent American message. While this reply stated that it seemed useless to continue the existing diplomatic negotiations, it contained no threat or hint of war or armed attack.

It will be recorded that the distance of Hawaii from Japan makes it obvious that the attack was deliberately planned many days or even weeks ago. During the intervening time the Japanese government has deliberately sought to deceive the United States by false statements and expressions of hope for continued peace.

The attack yesterday on the Hawaiian Islands has caused severe damage to American naval and military forces. Very many American lives have been lost. In addition, American ships have been reported torpedoed on the high seas between San Francisco and Honolulu.

Yesterday the Japanese government also launched as attack against Malaya.

Last night Japanese forces attacked Hong Kong.

Last night Japanese forces attacked Guam.

Last night Japanese forces attacked the Philippine Islands.

Last night Japanese forces attacked Wake Island.

This morning the Japanese attacked Midway Island.

Japan has, therefore, undertaken a surprise offensive extending throughout the Pacific area. The facts of yesterday speak for themselves. The people of the United States have already formed their opinions and well understand the implication to the very life and safety of our nation.

As commander in chief of the Army and Navy I have directed that all measures be taken for our defense. Always will we remember the character of the onslaught against us. . .

[Grug]

Wondering if anyone would bring this up, especially with all the politcal talk about...

[Thrilla]

oh yeah...duh that's today.  Been too busy working on exams to notice

[Grug]

Well yesterday now. Well where I am anyway. GMT +10

[redmenace]

I was only only bringing it up as a matter of memory since this was the event that triggered America's "official" involvement in WWII.

[Clave]

I feel some 'what if' discussion should be placed here.

What if the Japanese had not bombed Pearl Harbour?

Or, what if the secret of nuclear power had never been found?

[Liberator]

God, grant to rest those that fell in that war and peace to those that remained behind.

[Flipside]

Despite Hiroshima and Nagasaki, both of which are still paying the price for bombs dropped 55 years ago, I am still relieved that Ameica deisgned the Nuke first to be honest.

Considering Nazi germany were getting there as well.... and it wouldn't have been limited to 2 if they had got there first, they would have started on an instant war of Global proportions before anyone else could get a bomb working. And America would have suffered worst of them all if that had happened

[Janos]

Originally posted by Clave
I feel some 'what if' discussion should be placed here.

What if the Japanese had not bombed Pearl Harbour?

Or, what if the secret of nuclear power had never been found?

Oh yes, the eternal burden of war freaks. What ifs.

Well, had the Japanese not attacked PH, they would have had a bit more time in their hands. However, US more or less direct involvement in Pacific was pretty much guarantiined by the time. Japanese did manage to sink a ****load of ships, but as the carriers were out sailing the high seas, the long-term effect, given US industrial capacity, could only be measured in months or couple funny years.
It allowed the Japs to get an initiative and press on in Pacific much more freely than if they hadn't dispatched the battleships and would operate under fear [if we are still believing that US would involve sometime] of more powerful US convoys.

Or something.

Had the nuclear power never been found, we wouldn't be doing this [POSTING IN AN INTERNET]. Ending the war against Japan would have required either insane amounts of firebombing or insane amounts of men. Actually, propably insane amounts of both. Also, chances of another major war erupting again in 1960s-1970s would be muuuuch higher and even more people would be dying in PA diseases.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Liberator
God, grant to rest those that fell in that war and peace to those that remained behind.

Amen to that.

[Flipside]

There was never a point in history where Japan could have succesfully started a war with America. Well, except before it was colonised maybe, Ninja vs Brave... hmmmm......

[Janos]

Originally posted by Flipside
There was never a point in history where Japan could have succesfully started a war with America. Well, except before it was colonised maybe, Ninja vs Brave... hmmmm......

Yup, in a sense we nowadays associate with WW2. However, if the Japanese had actually managed in removing better parts of USN (carriers) and digging in deeper, while making a conventional war look like a stupid, stupid thing to do, then they might have stood a chance of US basically saying "**** it". Highly hypothetical and not likely to happen, but sometimes bold and swift strike is indeed a way to act if facing overwhelming odds.

[remember the goddamn resource problem]

[vyper]

There's times I wish the Japs had kept it in their pants.

[Styxx]

If the atomic bomb hadn't been invented, Japan would have been razed in a firebombing campaign that would have put Hiroshima and Nagasaki to shame. The only thing that forced them to surrender was the sheer shock of a single bomb doing all that damage, and the fact that they knew the United States had more.

[Flipside]

Exactly. Even the Commander of the Japanese fleet at Pearl Harbor knew they had bitten off far far more than they could chew from day one.

'I fear we have awoken a Dragon'. That quote from the original Pearl Harbor film was actually in his Log.

Indeed, the whole 'dishonour' that resulted from the communications error that meant the attack happened before the declaration of War (everyone does know this happened by accident, right?), made Japan enter the fight feeling like cowards. This was physcologically not good.

[Kazan]

we could produce one nuclear bomb every six days

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Flipside
Exactly. Even the Commander of the Japanese fleet at Pearl Harbor knew they had bitten off far far more than they could chew from day one.

'I fear we have awoken a Dragon'. That quote from the original Pearl Harbor film was actually in his Log.

Indeed, the whole 'dishonour' that resulted from the communications error that meant the attack happened before the declaration of War (everyone does know this happened by accident, right?), made Japan enter the fight feeling like cowards. This was physcologically not good.

Yeah, IIRC the Japanese only attacked because they thought they had to get a killer blow (or rather, a delaying one) in first before the US entered the way against them.  Of course, it only delayed the Us something like 6 months, and the Japanese never managed to hit any of the key aircraft carrier targets.

[Kazan]

Originally posted by aldo_14
and the Japanese never managed to hit any of the key aircraft carrier targets.

command level arrogance is a ***** isn't it

[Flipside]

The original plan was to declare war at Midday iirc, and then the attack took place early afternoon, but because of a bungle due to time zones, it never happened.

In Japan there is nothing more cowardly than attacking an unaware enemy in the back. This is why Ninja were actually reviled in their homeland, they were dishonourable warriors.

[aldo_14]

I can't help but wondering what they thought they'd achieve, anyways - a short delay?  Was US entry into the war a certainty prior to Pearl Harbour (I thought it was still an issue of debate)?  Especially as they thought - knew - they couldn't win any sort of protacted war with the US.