Author Topic: Damn, can't change thread titles can you?  (Read 6445 times)

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Offline FireCrack

  • 210
  • meh...
Actual velocities and accelerations?
I belive that the "laser" weapons are actualy lasers being bounced back and forth within charges of plasma (the blobs)

Also, ship speed in cutscenses seems to be IIRC 500x the ingame speed.
actualy, mabye not.
"When ink and pen in hands of men Inscribe your form, bipedal P They draw an altar on which God has slaughtered all stability, no eyes could ever soak in all the places you anoint, and yet to see you all at once we only need the point. Flirting with infinity, your geometric progeny that fit inside you oh so tight with triangles that feel so right."
3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944 59230781640628620899862803482534211706...
"Your ever-constant homily says flaw is discipline, the patron saint of imperfection frees us from our sin. And if our transcendental lift shall find a final floor, then Man will know the death of God where wonder was before."

 

Offline Blaise Russel

  • Campaign King
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    • http://mysite.freeserve.com/sbre/index.html
Actual velocities and accelerations?
Alternatively, it's all magic.

 

Offline Knight Templar

  • Stealth
  • 212
  • I'm a magic man, I've got magic hands.
Actual velocities and accelerations?
The Kayser reportedly uses a high amount of smoke and/or mirrors.
Copyright ©1976, 2003, KT Enterprises. All rights reserved

"I don't want to get laid right now. I want to get drunk."- Mars

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Offline Col. Fishguts

  • voodoo doll
  • 211
Actual velocities and accelerations?
Quote
Originally posted by Knight Templar
The Kayser reportedly uses a high amount of smoke and/or mirrors.


Well if you look how a lasers based on noble gases are built...and since smoke is gaseous.....the smoke&mirror part isn't far from the truth ;)
"I don't think that people accept the fact that life doesn't make sense. I think it makes people terribly uncomfortable. It seems like religion and myth were invented against that, trying to make sense out of it." - D. Lynch

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Offline Carl

  • Render artist
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    • http://www.3dap.com/hlp/
Actual velocities and accelerations?
Quote
Originally posted by Alan Bolte
Photons are light. 'Photon torpedo' is a nonsensical nickname for an antimatter missile.


It's called a Photon torpedo because the result of one's detination is high energy gamma ray photons.
"Gunnery control, fry that ****er!" - nuclear1

 

Offline Carl

  • Render artist
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    • http://www.3dap.com/hlp/
Actual velocities and accelerations?
Also, the Kayser seems to work via unstable particles that decay when disturbed, it could possibly be antimatter, except that then it wouldn't work on shields.
"Gunnery control, fry that ****er!" - nuclear1

 

Offline FireCrack

  • 210
  • meh...
Actual velocities and accelerations?
mesons?

X bosnons?
actualy, mabye not.
"When ink and pen in hands of men Inscribe your form, bipedal P They draw an altar on which God has slaughtered all stability, no eyes could ever soak in all the places you anoint, and yet to see you all at once we only need the point. Flirting with infinity, your geometric progeny that fit inside you oh so tight with triangles that feel so right."
3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944 59230781640628620899862803482534211706...
"Your ever-constant homily says flaw is discipline, the patron saint of imperfection frees us from our sin. And if our transcendental lift shall find a final floor, then Man will know the death of God where wonder was before."

 

Offline Corsair

  • Gull Wings Rule
  • 29
Actual velocities and accelerations?
Yo...the guys at V aren't scientists. They didn't base any of this on science really, just put in lots of scientific terms to make it sound cool. You'll never be able to agree on this stuff because it's not real.

And wasn't there a speed MOD around somewhere that boosted the speeds of all the ships to make them more realistic?
Wash: This landing's gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: *shrug* "Oh God, oh God, we're all gonna die"?
Mal: This is the captain. We have a little problem with our entry sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and then... explode.

 

Offline Alan Bolte

  • 28
  • Deneb III
    • @Compellor
Actual velocities and accelerations?
:rolleyes: Of course it's not real, of course it doesn't make sense. But the funny thing about most sci-fi universes is if you ignore this bit of data and fudge those numbers, it's possible to end up with a sense of what general tech level they're at, so you can compare them. Like I said, I'm working with a crossover mod.

I don't particularly care to get too in depth about exactly how the weapons work, because we all know it's bull****, and any explanation we come up with will only be marginally more believable bull****.

OTOH, I was kinda bugged by the Maxim. An aquaintence from another board suggested that the uranium slug is wrapped in explosives, accelerated out of the gun, and the explosives ignited, giving you a small fission explosion travelling at high speeds.

Essentially my only quesitons are these:
What are typical relative combat velocities in 'real' FS?
What kind of maximum accelerations are capships and fighters capable of?
Do beams travel at near-c, c, or are they tachyonic?
Do primaries travel really slowly like ingame, or are they c/near-c weapons?

And the one item I most need is information on whether anyone remembers anything that might be high combat speeds in cutscenes or documentation I'm not familiar with. If that's a no, I'll just have to dig through it all by hand, which shouldn't be that bad anyway.

If all else fails, I'll just have to accept tiny combat speeds and assume that they do it to conserve fuel, and because their combat flight and targetting computers are worthless. Obviously they'd have to be capable of greater speeds outside of combat, but you only have to accelerate twice to get somewhere. That convoy you're escorting is probably travelling at hundreds of km/s relative to the planet it left, but you certainly have no reason to travel much faster than it is. Honestly, though, you should still be able to move about like fighters from B5. Those travel way faster, have fairly limited fuel, and are perfectly combat capable with computers that don't do anything extraordinary.
Anything worth doing is worth analyzing to death -Iranon

 

Offline Corsair

  • Gull Wings Rule
  • 29
Actual velocities and accelerations?
They don't have to travel at hundreds of km/s because they can just make insystem subspace jumps, right?
Wash: This landing's gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: *shrug* "Oh God, oh God, we're all gonna die"?
Mal: This is the captain. We have a little problem with our entry sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and then... explode.

 

Offline Eishtmo

  • The one and only
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    • http://www.angelfire.com/games2/fsarchive/index.html
Actual velocities and accelerations?
Quote
Originally posted by Alan Bolte
What are typical relative combat velocities in 'real' FS?


Between 50 and 100 meters per second.  Yeah, in game speeds are the real speeds of the ships.  Time your self flying past the 2.2 km Orion (I think it's 2.2, at least 2) and you'll find they're accurate.  Lower speeds were picked for gameplay reasons, but are the actual speeds.

Quote
What kind of maximum accelerations are capships and fighters capable of?


Not sure, you might be able to read them out of the tables, or someone else will know well enough.

Quote
Do beams travel at near-c, c, or are they tachyonic?


Tachyons are never (to my knowledge) mentioned in the game.  They're at least near-c speeds in propegation(sp) if I remember right.

Quote
Do primaries travel really slowly like ingame, or are they c/near-c weapons?


Depends on the weapon.  Some are lasers (says right in the tech description), others are guns (the Avenger is a radar controlled cannon).  They *should* go at c (the lasers), but don't appear to.  Perhaps what is seen is a kind of tracer round, it's hard to say.

Quote
If all else fails, I'll just have to accept tiny combat speeds and assume that they do it to conserve fuel, and because their combat flight and targetting computers are worthless. Obviously they'd have to be capable of greater speeds outside of combat, but you only have to accelerate twice to get somewhere. That convoy you're escorting is probably travelling at hundreds of km/s relative to the planet it left, but you certainly have no reason to travel much faster than it is. Honestly, though, you should still be able to move about like fighters from B5. Those travel way faster, have fairly limited fuel, and are perfectly combat capable with computers that don't do anything extraordinary.


There's no statement anywhere that it has anything to do with fuel.  The only fuel mentioned is for the afterburners, and those "replenish" after a while.  Engine speed is based solely on the amount of energy dedicated to the system, so whatever the drive system is that pushes the fighters forward does not require any large amounts of fuel.  There is some speculation that they use ion drives, but gameplay does not bear this out at all.

I've tried to figure out what's going on with the drive system, and it seems to me that there's some kind of "drag" on the fighter, which gives it not only the weird physics but the oddly low speeds.  I'm thinking (though not sure) that it may be the fault of the subspace motivators, but I'm not sure.

The best thing to do with a crossover is keep the weapon data, and dump the speed information.  Use the equivilant simply to make things work out better.  It'll be easier, that's for sure.
Warpstorm  Bringing Disorder to Chaos, And Eventually We'll Get It Right.

---------

I know there is a method, but all I see is madness.

 

Offline Lynx

  • 211
Actual velocities and accelerations?
The speeds you see on the HUD are possibly ment not to be the real speed of the ship but the speed relative to some object near it which might be moving itself. The same explanation was used for Wing Commander, where the ships are fictionally capable of traveling ten thousands of kilometers per second, but ingame they are much much slower.
Give a man fire and he'll be warm for a day, but set fire to him and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

 

Offline Alan Bolte

  • 28
  • Deneb III
    • @Compellor
Actual velocities and accelerations?
What I meant was not that the ingame speeds were inaccurate to within the game, but that perhaps they were altered for gameplay reasons, so that while you fly past ships at 100 m/s ingame, if someone at [V] were to write a novel set in the FreeSpace universe it would talk about speeds and ranges much greater than that.

The reason I am exploring this possibility is that unless this is the case, creating a believable crossover is going to be a total b****. When your other universes have no problem with going head-to-head at kilometers per second, or can lauch missiles from ranges of tens of thousands of kilometers, FS ships can't possibly fight them. Either they die from range, or they're ignored as strategic goals are acheived by going around them. The only possibilty is to say 'FS ingame is sort of symbolic for the real FS universe' and create similar symbolism for the other universes. Think believability isn't an issue? Go to any sci-fi geek, and say "A Starfury could totally pwnz0r a Star Destroyer." You'll never hear the end of it!
Anything worth doing is worth analyzing to death -Iranon

 

Offline Carl

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    • http://www.3dap.com/hlp/
Actual velocities and accelerations?
i don't think a starfury could totally pwnzor a star destroyer.
"Gunnery control, fry that ****er!" - nuclear1

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
Actual velocities and accelerations?
The FS ships, though, built to fight a close range, have an advantage: they can subspace-jump to close range and shred someone before he can get enough distance to fight comfortably. It really depends on who's on the offensive.

Also FS ships have apparently significantly more powerful weaponry, and are significantly tougher, then most other sci-fi universe ships. Go check the megaton rating of a Harbinger. That'll make the kind of nuclear weaponry the B5 EA uses look like a firecracker.

Of course a Starfury could pwnzor a Star Destroyer. The Starfury would be player-controlled!
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline Carl

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Actual velocities and accelerations?
well, when the B5 project is complete and the Star Wars Fate of The Galaxy conversion is complete, someone can set that up.
"Gunnery control, fry that ****er!" - nuclear1

 

Offline Eishtmo

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Actual velocities and accelerations?
Quote
Originally posted by Alan Bolte
What I meant was not that the ingame speeds were inaccurate to within the game, but that perhaps they were altered for gameplay reasons, so that while you fly past ships at 100 m/s ingame, if someone at [V] were to write a novel set in the FreeSpace universe it would talk about speeds and ranges much greater than that.


No, they haven't been altered at all, from what I can tell.  We only have a handful of cutscenes featuring fighters moving, but the speeds seem about the same as in game.  They're just slower.

Quote
The reason I am exploring this possibility is that unless this is the case, creating a believable crossover is going to be a total b****. When your other universes have no problem with going head-to-head at kilometers per second, or can lauch missiles from ranges of tens of thousands of kilometers, FS ships can't possibly fight them. Either they die from range, or they're ignored as strategic goals are acheived by going around them. The only possibilty is to say 'FS ingame is sort of symbolic for the real FS universe' and create similar symbolism for the other universes. Think believability isn't an issue? Go to any sci-fi geek, and say "A Starfury could totally pwnz0r a Star Destroyer." You'll never hear the end of it!


Yeah, the problem comes up on other boards (Spacebattles), and we just have to accept that the speed differences exist, for whatever reason they do.  As ngtm1r, they are tougher, have generally stronger weapons and a point to point FTL system that is very, very effective if used properly.  Checks and balances can be done.

As I suggested, just drop the speed thing and use the most comparable.  It's the only way FS will live up to your standards.
Warpstorm  Bringing Disorder to Chaos, And Eventually We'll Get It Right.

---------

I know there is a method, but all I see is madness.

 

Offline FireCrack

  • 210
  • meh...
Actual velocities and accelerations?
Quote
Originally posted by Eishtmo


No, they haven't been altered at all, from what I can tell.  We only have a handful of cutscenes featuring fighters moving, but the speeds seem about the same as in game.  They're just slower.


yes, but most larger ships we see moving are moving much faster, furthermore, most of the time when we see cutscene fighters they are flying in formation with said larger ships.


edit: actualy just realised that the FS2 intro doesnt follow this generalisation at all
« Last Edit: December 14, 2004, 12:16:38 am by 2073 »
actualy, mabye not.
"When ink and pen in hands of men Inscribe your form, bipedal P They draw an altar on which God has slaughtered all stability, no eyes could ever soak in all the places you anoint, and yet to see you all at once we only need the point. Flirting with infinity, your geometric progeny that fit inside you oh so tight with triangles that feel so right."
3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944 59230781640628620899862803482534211706...
"Your ever-constant homily says flaw is discipline, the patron saint of imperfection frees us from our sin. And if our transcendental lift shall find a final floor, then Man will know the death of God where wonder was before."

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
Actual velocities and accelerations?
Since these are space scenes and lack obvious fixed references, it's a little hard to tell if the ships are moving, or the camera is moving. Certainly I think it's the camera in the Colossus cutscene.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline aldo_14

  • Gunnery Control
  • 213
Actual velocities and accelerations?
Isn't it better to be more maneuverable than faster in this sort of space combat, anyways?  IIRC Harriers wipe the floor with F-15s in dogfighting excercises, probably it's just more useful to sacrifice speed for maneuverability.