I'd like to pull a quote from that
first publication you linked to a couple of posts up:
[q]It was no accident that civilians, caught in the middle of the fighting around their homes, suffered grave harm. Those who decided to use massive military force inside cities, villages, and refugee camps surely knew what the consequences would be. [/q]
Has it ever occurred to you that it is in fact the innocent Palestinians who are being terrorised by their own people? Think about it.
They're using their own people as human shields from the IDF's retaliation to acts of terror against Israeli civilians.
Which is more accurate, the above quote, or this modified version?
"It was no accident that civilians, caught in the middle of the fighting around their homes, suffered grave harm. Those who decided to hide inside cities, villages, and refugee camps surely knew that the consequences would be."
Think about it.
Originally posted by Gank
Ah get off your high horse, you said you were only ever involved marginally in the shooting of one palestinian, yet it turns out you were part of an operation which killed 60.
[q]Anyway, the whole point of this operation was to draw attention to our armored vehicles, to cause the terrorists to be drawn to our area and open fire on us. If and when that occurred, we'd pinpoint the window/doorway the fire was coming in from and toss a 105mm in there.[/q]
Thats you speaking, doesnt match up with what you said before.
Ok, here's some military information for you - sorry if it gets a bit long-winded.
The abovementioned patrol consisted of, at minimum, one
Magach-class MBT (Main Battle Tank) and one M113 APC (Armored Personnel Carrier). Soldiers from the tank corps were manning the MBT, and soldiers from my reserve unit, all of whom had been combat engineers (minefields and explosives) during their regular military service, were in the APC.
MBT's are capable of firing weaponry from inside the protection of the tank - aside from the main cannon, obviously, there is the parallel .50 cal HMG (Heavy Machine Gun - a Browning in this case) that can be aimed from the inside, as well as a gun mount (usually a 7.62mm Belgian MAG) called a Raphael, which uses a periscope for aiming from inside the tank (which, TBH, can be insanely fun to use on the firing range or in live-fire excercises, like a video game... but that's besides the point).
The IDF's APCs, however, generally have one externally-mounted 7.62 MAG, with no mechanism for its use from inside the vehicle. However, the APCs were not there for firepower; they were there for the ease of entry/exit.
You see, the MBTs have these special reactive armor plates dangling along the sides, protecting the crew section from side impacts. These armored plates are filled with explosives that, when hit by an RPG or similar weapon, react by exploding outwards, thus diffusing the focused jet of superheated metal that RPGs penetrate regular armor with. As you can imagine, with these things being filled with explosives, they're a bit more valuable than your run-of-the-mill armored plating. But forget about the costs involved; there's a bunch of military-grade high explosives in each of those things, and boy, wouldn't it be an irony for the next Palestinian suicide bomber to blow himself/herself up with IDF explosives. Woohoo.
So anyway, what with the often narrow streets in the Palestinian cities, it was not unheard of for the tanks to brush up against the side of a building while navigating a corner, which would often result in lost armor plating. Additionally, the makeshift explosives tossed on the vehicles would occasionally knock a gun off its mount. Now, since the only way to exit a non-Merkava MBT is to climb out the hatches on top and down the sides, anyone doing so becomes an easy target. See where I'm going with this yet? M113 APCs have a small door in their rear loading ramps, so if something fell off the tank, we'd drive over to it, stick an arm out, and pull it inside.
All this to say that yes, I did "participate" in those patrols, but only as... heh... as support.
Originally posted by Gank
As foir the Apc, clck the fing links, they're there for a reason.
Pardon me, but I quoted your post before you edited in those links. Bad timing. So there.
Originally posted by Gank
If I seem a bit narcy with ya sandwich, its because the stuff you say doesnt gel with what your own media reports:
No problem, Gank - I do get a bit caught up in things sometimes, but I try not to take things personally. So as long as you leave my mother out of this, we should have nothing more than a civil debate.
Originally posted by Gank
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/514884.html
Guy shot dead for crossing a road
You might want to rephrase that to "armed Palestinian speeding into closed military zone shot dead":
[q]
The shooting occurred after the IDF reopened the Kissufim crossing to traffic, which had been closed for several hour due to an earlier shooting in the area, in which IDF troops killed an armed Palestinian and wounded another, who managed to flee the area.
According to Palestinian witnesses and medics, the 33-year-old man was killed after trying to cross a road closed off by the IDF near the isolated Netzarim settlement.
The sister of Mustafa al-Sawarka said he was killed by IDF tank fire on the taxi in which he was traveling, Israel Radio reported.
An IDF source said soldiers had fired warning shots towards Palestinian cars that sped into a closed military zone along the road but that none was targeted directly.[/q]
Originally posted by Gank
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/512441.html
Use of human shields and executing the wounded
thats just from the last few days, can keep going if ya like.
[q]
Military sources said the incident did not involve the execution of the suspect, as argued by the human rights group B'Tselem.
A reconstruction of the incident, says the IDF, shows the soldiers had a legitimate concern that the suspect was still armed.[/q]
