[MicroPsycho]

Places that have designated smoking areas don't keep smoke away from the non-smokers all there is a wall between the two areas.

whether or not second-hand smoke is bad for people or not (I think it is) it's still not the most pleasant smell.

The city I live in has been smoke free for a few years now although bars and club establishments still have the right to make their own rules regarding smoking AFAIK. I find that restaurants have a cleaner atmosphere now that smoking is prohibited in public establishments

[Black Wolf]

Congrats to the Ontario lawmakers then. My state's (Western Australia) pollies have finally stopped dragging their feet and we're banning most indoor smoking sometime early next year, and Pub/Club smoking by 2006. Can't wait for it meself.

[Stealth]

Originally posted by karajorma
I've not heard of any studies showing the effects of second hand cigarette smoke other than certain sets of numbers that seem to have been pulled out of a hat at random.

yeah well please don't pull the "cigarette smoke isn't bad for you... that's just hype" card.  that's not debatable at the moment.

and the idiot that said we should outlaw alcohol because alcohol's bad for you... do some research:  alcohol that's abused and in excess is bad for you.  as was mentioned, drinking in moderation is not bad for you, i remember a study a while ago that said a glass of wine every day reduces the chance of heart attack by **%, although i don't know if that's true, but i do know there's never been anything to prove that alcohol in moderation damages the body.

Kamikaze's quote sums it up "Your right to breathe dangerous chemical ends at my lungs."

[Bobboau]

so, I want to own a bar, and I'm a smoker so I want it to be a place were people like me can relax and enjoy ourselves. what am I to do?

hypothetical BTW, I think people who smoke are idiots.

[Annorax]

Originally posted by Sandwich
*moves to Ontario*

EDIT: Has anyone figured out what the heck those three little shells were for, anyway?

Freakin' priceless.

Originally posted by Bobboau
so, I want to own a bar, and I'm a smoker so I want it to be a place were people like me can relax and enjoy ourselves. what am I to do?

hypothetical BTW, I think people who smoke are idiots.

Don't do it in Ontario?

Besides.... since when do smokers make good pilots?

[Bobboau]

I think they were for one of those jets of ass cleaning water things.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Stealth
yeah well please don't pull the "cigarette smoke isn't bad for you... that's just hype" card.  that's not debatable at the moment.

Did you not read the sentence I wrote underneath that? I know how bad the chemicals involved in cigarette smoke are. As I said many of the chemicals are potent carcinogens but like I said the data I have seen on second hand smoking is badly flawed. The number of deaths attributed to second hand smoke are particularly bad. Feel free to check up on the methodology used if you don't believe me.

Originally posted by Rictor
See, thats where I disagree. If someone willingly works in areas where there are dangerous chemicals kicking around, that's their thing. I can decide for my self, and whether the incentive is money or anythng else, the government can't take that choice away.

So you'd have no problem with multinationals exploiting the poor in order to save money involved in maintaing safety standards?

That's quite an impressive reversal of your usual position on matters like this.

Originally posted by Rictor
I don't think bar/restaurant employees are too happy about this though, they stand to loose lots of tip money and/or their jobs. And even if you are only protecting the workers, what about all the other places where its banned? Car parks, malls etc.

Like I said I'm in two minds about the whole thing. While part of me does tend to believe that occupational health and safety standards should apply to this sort of thing another part of me tends to believe that some people have exploited this to stop other people from continuing a habit just because they don't like it.

Personally I think that the solution is a ban on smoking in places like pubs and bars where the atmosphere of smoke can be very strong but no involentary restrictions on "open air" places like car parks etc  where there is sufficient ventilation to prevent dangerous levels building up.

[WMCoolmon]

That's the whole point, its their choice. What's next, banning alchohol because its bad for you? Oh wait, already tried that.

One person drinking alcohol doesn't mean that everyone else around them is going to experience the effects of it as well. The same is not true for smoking.

Why would you want to smoke anyway? I can see the reasons for drinking, or even getting high off a drug of choice, but as far as I know cigarretes don't have any sort of chemicals that produce endorphins or cause any sort of 'feel-good' reaction in the brain.

[SadisticSid]

In a certain episode of Yes Minister (UK sophisticated political comedy in the 80s) there was a great line by Humphrey Appleby concerning the costs to the NHS of smoking in relation to treatments for cancer. "But minister, these people are national benefactors! By prematurely laying down their lives before natural causes take effect we save a fortune from the healthcare and social security benefits they would otherwise have." It was meant as a joke to show how horrible and money-grubbing the civil service was, of course, but I often wonder how much truth there is to that...

[Stealth]

Originally posted by karajorma


Did you not read the sentence I wrote underneath that?

that's why i said "please don't pull the .....  card".  because i know with what you said, some moron will come along and say "but cigarette smoke doesn't hurt other people!!11"... it was coming, which is why i said please no one go that direction.

[Grimloq]

how can you guys say any of this?

i live in the US and can say this:

first off, 'rights' are made-up 'rules' that are there only to keep the people from rioting and finding out how badly the government is actually exploiting them.

the same goes for the 'law'. the US is just a corperate dream...

smoking is a prime example. does the governmetn make any attempt to put them all out of business? no.
funny how smoking is perfectly legal, as is convinceing someone else to smoke, but killing them with nerve gas isnt. spooky that.

dont get me started on the whole car industry. its insulting.

i dont understand how its possible for this nation to last so long. its been around like 150 years (is my math wrong? i dont think so) im surprised.

the US IS a paradox. a bleeding stupid one at that.

plus, matters arent helped by that idiotic wart-on-the-face-of-the-earth we have for president right now. [sarcasm]oh, i feel SO safe because that DANGEROUS iraq cant hurt me now.[/sarcasm] ooh, what were they going to do? now were prolly going to totally decimate another country that hasnt DONE any-f^cking-thing to us, and then fill yet ANOTHER space on the world with this travasty of a nation!


sooo... no. you dont have rights. isnt america wonderful? *primes weapon* HAH! DIE you corperate BASTARDS!


ggrrrrr.... *is shaking with rage*

[Ghostavo]

I thought this was about canada...

[NGTM-1R]

Grim, take a Valium. You'll feel better.

And that safety/not-safety argument has always amused me. You're not safe now. You never were safe. And you never will be safe.

[Grimloq]

yes. thats what im saying.

except that youre not safe HERE because those idiots trying to RUN this place are out to get you.

[Ford Prefect]

I think Grimloq might actually be angrier than Kazan.

[Grimloq]

no ****.

[IceFire]

Come to Canada...live through a few winters here in Southern Ontario...or move to Winterpeg...I mean Winnipeg.  Then you'll feel better...and slightly more chilled out.

[Grimloq]

*sigh* *is a little more calmed down now*

there been some problems. im currently in a suicidal hate-driven bloodlust. you have been warned.

[aldo_14]

I welcome public smoking bans.  It makes my life more comfortable, and it makes it easier for me to convince my mum to drop the cancer sticks (it's a long-running battle, but I'll get there in the end).

[Tiara]

Ok... now ban fast-food restaurants and fatty foods because they cause Excess Weight Linked to 90,000 US Cancer Deaths Annually

3000 lung cancer deaths? 90000 overweight related deaths BY CANCER IN THE US ALONE. YEARLY. That's not even counting the non-cancer related deaths involving overweight.

Sorry, but smoking is a mere inconvenience compared to the other problems.

I find it purely hypocritical to ban smoking while allowing far more dangerous practices go on just because iot bothers other poeple. Well, I'm bothered by obese bastards that smell like rotten cheese and sit next to me in the bus. BAN FAT FOOD!