Author Topic: Audio format?  (Read 1309 times)

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Offline Tnn

  • 24
I'm not a modder, so I don't know if there're restrictions, but why missions and campaigns voice files are PCM .wav (which is huge)
Couldn't they use Mp3 .wav and save a lot of disk space?

 

Offline Trivial Psychic

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Its been asked before... by me even.  Apparently, mp3 is copywritted and FSO is trying to be license free as much as possible.  When someone suggests mp3, someone else invariably suggests ogg, which is licence-free and supperior to mp3 in some respects (surround-sound for example).  The drawbacks at this point have been motivation, since most campaigns out there don't distribute too many music files, so it hasn't been that necessary.  Also, switching to a higher compression audio format will cut into performance slightly (in decoding it on the fly).  Thirdly, I've heard it said from some coders that its not the easiest thing to add support for, though another coder recently indicated that he might be up to the tast, though that was about a month ago and I've heard nothing since.  Basically, its one of those things they might do eventually, but there are more crucial things on their platter at this point.

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Why not add miles sound system, it's free and has mp3 support.
http://www.radgametools.com/miles.htm
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Offline Tnn

  • 24
Wow! this is the kind of answer I like when scanning the forum (right to the point with useful info. Thanks, Trivial Psychic.)

The reason I asked is that mission without voices loses lots of appeals, (it's tough and annoying, trying to read the tiny texts in the heat of battle!) but comm voice files are huge and a pain to download!

If case of copywright and performance hit, voice files could be distributed in mp3 .wav or whatever codec that is efficient, and then convert back to PCM .wav to play (that's a 20 to 1 compression instead of just 1/2, using .zip or .rar ) What do you think?

 

Offline taylor

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Quote
Originally posted by Overlord
Why not add miles sound system, it's free and has mp3 support.
http://www.radgametools.com/miles.htm

NFL (Not For Linux).  I do think there is a Linux version but don't care to get into that whole thing.  Reading mp3's isn't a coding issue but a legal one.  We'll open ourselves up to a ton of lawyer type problems and while we might get away with not paying license fees now our options for the future will be greatly limited.

Quote
Originally posted by Tnn
If case of copywright and performance hit, voice files could be distributed in mp3 .wav or whatever codec that is efficient, and then convert back to PCM .wav to play (that's a 20 to 1 compression instead of just 1/2, using .zip or .rar ) What do you think?

And who would do the converting?  I think that requiring the user to do this is asking too much.  If all of the sound files are in a VP then they have to be unpacked, converted and then possibly packed again.  If they are left unpacked then it's more trouble to distribute for the mod makers.  Offering mp3 for those who want faster downloads and wav for those who want the play quicker after downloading is also undo stress on the mod makers.

It's not really an issue though, there *will* be OGG support.  As the "other coder up to the task" I can say that for sure.  I'm not going to work on it until after 3.6.5 is officially released but when it does get out OGG support will be one of the first things I work on.

 
The miles sound system includes mp3 patient rights.

Quote
The Miles Sound System provides a legally redistributable MP3 decoder at no charge! This means that you can use MP3 files in your games just like normal PCM digital audio.
You must sign an extra MPEG license addendum (which, among other minor things, requires you to add a credit to Fraunhofer and Thomson in your game), but, other than that, you can use MP3 decompression just like our already built-in ADPCM decompression.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2004, 10:54:11 am by 2136 »
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Offline taylor

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Quote
Originally posted by Overlord
The miles sound system includes mp3 patient rights.

Yes, because RAD pays for them.  We still have to abide by the license though.  Looking over the RAD site I don't see anywhere that says Miles is free.  We would need the SDK for full support and that's $4,000 for each platform.  A grand total of $12,000 for use in FS2_Open.  Miles is also not open source so only a few developers could build binaries that work and the code could never be put in CVS.

 
Oh, you're right, i didn't look in the sales page. :nervous:
I thought it was for free, but i was wrong.
Now i vote for ogg.:rolleyes:
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Offline Setekh

  • Jar of Clay
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Ogg rules. Compression rates are on par and the sound quality is richer. :)
- Eddie Kent Woo, Setekh, Steak (of Steaks), AWACS. Seriously, just pick one.
HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS, now V3.0. Bringing Modders Together since January 2001.
THE HARD LIGHT ARRAY. Always makes you say wow.

 

Offline WMCoolmon

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Freespace 2 actually supports the ADPCM codec...which sounds horrible, and makes me want to beat people with a stick if I try to listen to anything outside of a battle situation. :p

I don't want to get anyone too excited, but there is some OGG support for everything but music implemented. Last I tried it it didn't work, but I did something stupid like reading the same part of the file over and over again. :p

After 3.6.5 is released I'm going to upgrade the minimal changes I made and see if that gets things working.
-C

 

Offline Trivial Psychic

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That's 2! 2 coders who've said they'll try their hands at coding OGG!!  Ah, ha, ha, ha!!
*Cue Lightning*
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