Author Topic: A Journey of the Forgotten  (Read 73112 times)

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Offline Goober5000

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Re: A Journey of the Forgotten
The last part is sort of a muddle between two contradictory styles.  On the one hand, it acts like it's reviewing a history, giving lists of facts, events etc.; but it doesn't give anything names or dates and it doesn't offer anything the reader can relate to.  On the other hand, it attempts to give an emotional picture of the speaker, but the listing of events gets in the way.  It tries to do two things at once and ends up doing neither well.  If you want to communicate emotion, give an emotional picture and don't distract the reader with events.  If you want to list events, don't mix in an emotional analysis.

And there needs to be some details to hook this thing together.  We don't know what "the necessity to act" means, why the speaker needs someone to take over, what needs to be done, etc.  Personally, Singh, I don't think you've added enough clues.  TBH, your last post told me more about what happened in the last section than the section itself, since I didn't get the bits about losing sanity, betraying a purpose, or doing the opposite of what it's designed to do.

 

Offline Singh

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Re: A Journey of the Forgotten
TBH, your last post told me more about what happened in the last section than the section itself, since I didn't get the bits about losing sanity, betraying a purpose, or doing the opposite of what it's designed to do.

From the piece, in hte order it came in:

Quote
I did not think with sanity at that time, nor did I think of the consequences of what my departure would have. Instead, I was only focused only on the rage and insanity that had been perpetuated by billions of years of entropy upon my mind.

Quote
"Each trusted my soul, my presence of mind to do the task that they could not do and most importantly, to keep it a secret from the creations that survived, till the right time and the right person."

"I believe it is these few chosen that shall finally give an end to my purpose, and to finally set me free.

I can only hope that should you read this message, my creators that you would forgive me for what actions that I have taken, and for the promise I had broken."

The last one I cant give a proper answer to.

However, as I've said, I'm open to good criticism. If you've got inside knowledge of how to tell the story of a fifteen billion year old 'crossed-insanity and then came back again' creation, or have details on the story I dont, I'm more than likely willing to listen and alter the part as required. :)

In any case, I get the point. More facts/details. More will be clarified in the part than in the past one-fifty-eight pages combined. However, then also it'll just raise more questions than answers :P
"Blessed be the FREDder that knows his sexps."
"Cursed be the FREDder that trusts FRED2_Open."
Dreamed of much, accomplished little. :(

 

Offline aceofspades

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Re: A Journey of the Forgotten
I agree with your point, Singh. I'm not saying that information wasn't contained in the chapter at all, I'm saying that juggling too much mysterious questions within every paragraph makes it more difficult for the reader to update his knowledge accurately.
Anyway, I think we've had close-to-enough of this discussion. All in all, it was still in many ways an awesome chapter, as far as I'm concerned. No need to compare Singh to Card quite yet. Besides...whoa, you've reached 158 already? The little baby is growing up  :p.
I wonder if the Shivans eat chocolate? Or play FS2, for that matter.

 

Offline Singh

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Re: A Journey of the Forgotten
Yup, according to the word file at least. But then I may just have added five to eight pages by spacing between chapters, so around 150 is a safer bet. My largest piece of work to date, though, but I really dont know how far it really wants to go, so I'm sorta ignoring any word limits atm.

In any case, I've uploaded the AJoTF vid you asked for. Remember, this is the old, crappy version, so forgive me for the lack of quality :)

www.game-warden.com/singh/AJOTF.exe

tis .exe format for compression's sake. Just extract the vid and play. Let me know once you have it, so I can remove to save GW's bandwidth. :)
"Blessed be the FREDder that knows his sexps."
"Cursed be the FREDder that trusts FRED2_Open."
Dreamed of much, accomplished little. :(

 

Offline aceofspades

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Re: A Journey of the Forgotten
I have the file now, thanks. It's not as bad a video as you make it sound  :p
I wonder if the Shivans eat chocolate? Or play FS2, for that matter.

 

Offline Singh

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Re: A Journey of the Forgotten

Chapter 11[/u]
Faith's End[/u]


The beings known to many others as the great destroyers slowly began to increase their number and, consolidate their presence. First they arrived either individually or in groups of two or threes, and then by the dozens and scores…and then, eventually, by the hundreds. They slipped out quietly from the subspace nodes, making way for the ones that came after in an orderly profession and each ship knew it’s place in the formation. Although a significant percentage of their number had inhabited the system, there were still others…many others that had continued on the pact that drove them onwards till now. And it was these others that were now returning to the system, and what was, in essence, the throne of the universe.

Many civilizations that have encountered, and indeed, been destroyed by them have asked many questions of the great destroyer’s nature, and their purpose. Those that have understood their speech have asked them their purpose and of the pact…only to find the truth by the one that they bring them to. Indeed, for much of their existence has been like this, and they have had little voice in the matter. But as with all questions, there are answers.

The nature of the great destroyers is remarkably simple…yet so damningly complex. Many beings in the universe have arisen, and used subspace to create tunnels that they may traverse the distance of space. Many do not realize, that this tunnel is, in fact, a vast ocean that any being from our realm would not be able to discern. They merely cut into this ocean for tiny fraction of time, utilizing it to skip the massive distances they would have to cover had they remained in their realm. Unfortunately, like an ocean, their visibility in it is limited…and hence, none of them know, or notice as the great destroyers listen to them as their passage makes vibrations in this ocean.

The destroyers were born here when it was first formed. Their minds evolved within the intricate energy patterns present in it; the first being of nothing but pure energy and thought. And then came another…and another. Eventually, their presence filled the ocean, stretching from one edge of the universe to another. The minds merged and separated at will; forever free from any of the restrictions that creatures dependent on the simple matter suffered; forever at a state that was incomprehensible to anyone younger…Their minds formed a presence, far before any of the real-matter life forms could even have a chance to exist in the now-cooling universe. At this point of time, their race soon found…it.

What it was, was nothing but an aberration to them…one that threatened them all. This aberration…this ‘corruption’ as it were, ate at the heart of the universe they were in, and at the realm that held their – and many other future race’s – worlds together. They did not really know how to describe it, and indeed, most other races that encountered it simply did not know how to place the aberration…the closest analogy one could come to, would probably be that the universe was quite literally eating itself, slowly and painfully. In the affected areas, entropy would either run wild and loose, bringing about an end to time and space, or it would come about to a complete halt, freezing time in it’s tracks in many different and random areas; as if to forever remember the scene as much as possible, while doing it’s best to forget others. In these areas, time would no longer know linearity, with the events taking place in no discernable order…yet; still, there was still order in how long they lasted for. When it appeared; the universe’s agonizing disruption would end shortly thereafter, leaving behind a void…a hole of nothingness…almost as if the very concept of existence itself no longer held true there..

This aberration plagued the destroyers for many a millennia as it slowly drained away subspace into nothingness, restricting their free space further and further. They discovered ways to fight and contain it; but these methods required using matter and energy, preferably from the other realm’s stars. But they could not manipulate the stars directly from subspace; for such an extension of self was not possible for them…to complete their task and ensure survival of their realm and species…they would have to leave it.

A consensus was formed amongst the minds, and a small number was chosen to go into real space to combat the aberration and curtail the disaster till a more permanent solution could be discovered. This number then left subspace, building for themselves many bodies suited to live in the harsh environment of the matter-realm. The beings housed their minds into these bodies, essentially re-learning how to think, move and live from scratch. For ten millennia, the Destroyers prepared themselves for their first attempt at stopping the aberration. They came up with a system that would allow their minds to merge and separate at will, depending on the task, and resembling closely how they operated within the energy realm.

Each individual member of their species was sentient, as witnessed by those who mistook the fact that they depended completely on a hive mind structure, and then attempted to exploit it. Each individual is unique in their own special way, much like most matter-realm entities.

When a group of individuals gathered together, however, something different occurred. Although each would remain independent in their thought and sentience, their collective presence would form a new consciousness; a new mind based upon each individual’s thoughts and abilities. Where a group would seem like it consisted of five individuals, there would actually be six, with the larger mind acting to guide the group actively. This sixth mind would be equally sentient from the others, all of whom would be aware of its presence. It is in this way that their ships become alive and reactive; for in essence, the larger mind works on a different scale, one that guides each individual through the larger picture, and ensures that each element works in harmony with each other.

The scale does not stop there, either. Each ship’s sentience, when grouped together with other similar minds in a fleet, would act in the same way that most individuals would, in essence together forming a new, separate fleet mind that would rise to guide them, much as they guided their charges.

The scale continues; with each fleet mind then combining together to form a separate, overall hive mind; the presence of which is absolute for the entire local cluster. And then, when this hive mind were to combine with those from other clusters, it would form up to create a species-wide ‘prime’ that was unshakable in it’s resolve, and absolutely titanic in it’s capabilities. It was this mind, and it’s sheer size and redundancy, that would keep the destroyer’s system from collapsing as they approached the aberration. Although the loss of a few individuals would disrupt the local minds, the prime would remain steadfast and unshakable by the aberration’s attempts to dislodge it.

With this system, and a fleet of starships designed to use the subspace realm in which they had existed to travel, the destroyers approached the star system that housed the slowly-expanding aberration.

It was then that they ran into the creators.

The creators were an unusual species, and a perplexing question to the destroyers. These were the first matter-realm life forms the destroyers had encountered, and initial contact was awkward, to say the least. However, soon things were cleared up as the creators quickly adapted to the destroyer’s method of communication.

The creators were unusual, in the sense that they did not belong there, nor did they actually have a home. They were akin to nomads; having settlements and installations in many universes, and building gateways between them. They had met energy-realm creatures like the destroyers before, and hence understood them. They also understood of the destroyer’s purpose within the matter-realm and of how many others in the energy-realm had tried to do the same.

The creators were here to stop the aberration as well, much as they had in countless million other places. They were, in essence, doing as much damage control as possible. However, they revealed to the destroyers the shocking fact that their battle was a loosing one, and that even with the destroyer’s help, the aberration would eventually spread, and consume them all. Even if the aberration was stopped here, then it would spread in from elsewhere where the destroyers weren’t present. They could do nothing to stop the aberration, other than maybe slow it down. They had been fighting it for many millions of years, in an equal number of universes; having established a complete network of gateways in the local multiverse. As far as they could tell, although the aberration had originated from a single universe; consuming it completely, before it had then expanded outwards, slowly creeping into each of the alternative existences surrounding it. Nothing would stop it as the aberration in the centre of it all continued to grow and grow, despite what efforts they had taken.

It had gone to such an extent, the creators were now in full retreat; completing the final few installations before they withdrew from the entire sub-cluster, so that they could continue to protect the greater majority from immediate harm.

However, they knew of a method to remove the aberration altogether, to ‘cure’ the universe as it were. However, this method was well beyond any of their kind’s reach, for the universe’s limitations upon their existence came in the way, preventing them from reaching far enough to solve the problem. These limitations were the same for any of the creators, and especially the creations they had left behind.

But, these limitations were not true of the life emerging in the various universes where they had lived, fought and died. This new life could reach farther than they would ever be able to; and indeed, farther than their creations ever would be able to. They made a pact with the great destroyers; one that would mutually help each of them. They would leave behind a single creation in the destroyer’s universe; one that would contain the aberration for as long as it could. This creation would also serve as a gateway between the universes, so that should the destroyers be unable to contain the aberration, they would at the least be able to flee it’s grasp…if only temporarily. This creation would then serve as a guide for the chosen few, the one that would lead them to the solution that neither the creators, nor the destroyers could reach.

However, the creators were wise. They did not wish to force such a task onto anyone; for to do so would mean risking its failure, and damning them all. They would, instead, offer the task as a choice to the chosen few, so that if they choose to follow and complete it, they would be determined and driven on by their own wills, as opposed to looking for a means to escape it at every opportunity. The criteria for the chosen few were to be simple, yet at the same time, nearly impossible to achieve. Only those that could communicate with the destroyers would be allowed to make the choice, to fully understand the calamity, and what was at stake. The creators also trusted in the destroyers’ wisdom, and their choices. Should they ever require assistance, the creators said that a few of their own number would be left behind, to aid in their efforts. However, these few would only show themselves should the time be right and no sooner, leaving the destroyers to their own instruments, for the most part.

The destroyers were now the heralds of fate, in a sense. The creators then left them with their final task, taking with them to safety those that had decided to remain in the energy-realm, essentially leaving the destroyers completely alone in the universe, with only the creation as their constant companion.

The last few members of their race, the destroyers have spent the previous fourteen billion years struggling to contain the aberration in it’s place as more races came about. Those races that made use of subspace did so without knowing the immense damage and strain they placed upon it, reducing the tools with which the destroyers could fight the aberration. Soon, the destroyers realized that to continue to do their task; they would have to put an end to such interference, one way or the other.

They tried in vain to communicate with the many species…only to find nothing but a bed of hostility and hatred in many a species. Those species that did not attack them tried to make peace and communicate with them…only to have their efforts end in vain as the destroyers were forced to move and shut down their space-faring vessels before they damaged subspace to beyond a point of recovery.

But one cannot accuse the destroyers of not understanding the younger race’s plight. For each life they killed, they felt regret, guilt at such actions. They knew the younger races were only trying to survive, much like they were now struggling to, but yet still the needs of the greater majority drove them on, much like it had driven the creators to flee so many lifetimes before. Many of their own number were killed in the process, but the minds never really died; instead moving back into the energy realm before returning back to the matter one later.

And all this time, the creation had watched and waited alongside them. The destroyers had experienced betrayal, kindness, ignorance and even fear from the chosen few that they had brought before the creation.

But now…even as the creation tired, so did they. After so long, they did not have the capabilities to go on all that much longer. The race belonging to the ninth had pushed back their presence as their first fleet had attempted to scout out the source of a newly-arisen patch of aberration, destroying the present fleet-mind as it attempted to see the extent of the damage that had taken place. In the process, the node to the aberration was sealed, dooming that civilization’s home world to its mercy. Several years later, a second, more powerful ship that had tried to go to the star system and contain the aberration had been stopped by the race again.

Rather than attempt to push further against a possibly larger threat, the destroyers had instead attempted to contain the aberration from a distance, sending in six times the number of required vessels around one of the nearby stars to the aberration. They pulsed the star across subspace at many times the intensity required, to make up for the distance. Of course, as with elsewhere, the ninth’s race was left behind only wondering what the destroyers had done and why. Not till they decided to open the gateway and see for themselves the aberration the destroyers had been attempting to stop, shall they know true fear.

The destroyers, for their part, then left the race alone. They had lost a small, but still significant number of the starships meant for containing the aberration, and had now retreated. They had with them the ninth, the last ones they would herald. The destroyers were now exhausted, tired and fed up, and as they gathered into the system, they prepared to take up the creators on the avenue of escape they had provided.

But they were not about to do this blindly.

Should the ninth accept their fate, and go along with the plan, then the destroyers would escort them in their deed and tasks. To this extent, they did not intend to sit idly by. Even as the fleet began to prepare, and the mighty vessels that made up the Prime’s core components began to move towards the gate, a small group had already formed in front of it.

The race belonging to the ninth would have classified the massive ships that led the force as a Ravana and a Demon Class Destroyer. The former alone would have been intimidating to most races in this galaxy, with the forward spikes holding deadly beam cannons that could ravage even the hardiest armor, backed up by the ones on the rear-upper pylons, allowing it a truly terrifying strike capacity. Only the Colossus was able to repel an attack from such a warship, and even then, it was only due to sheer size different. Next to it was the Demon Class. A fearsome warship in it’s own right, the Demon bear significant resemblance to an over-grown and swollen flea; with it’s large body and small, forward head. However, unlike the Ravana, it did not focus on all out forward attacks, instead spreading out it’s primary weapons to engage multiple foes from most angles.

These destroyers dwarfed their tiny escorts to a significant degree. Each of the destroyers had an escort of eight Moloch Class Corvettes, as well as almost a dozen Lilith and Cain Class cruisers. They were also escorted by scores upon scores of fighters and bombers that all buzzed around the main craft.

However, the most powerful weapon in this arsenal was not the destroyers or other ships themselves, but consisted of the six vessels in the centre of the formation. These vessels were individually far, far smaller than most of the others, save the Lilith and Cain class. Long and cylindrical, each of them seemed to have a swollen and somewhat elongated ‘drum’ like structure for their forward hulls, which rotated at a constant velocity. The rear of the craft was shorter than this, and was primarily an engine complex that drove what the ninth’s race called the Rahu class Gas miners. But unbeknownst to the ninth’s race, these six, barely armed ships held more firepower than the other vessels all combined.

The destroyers had gone through the gateway once before, and had made the mistake if sending only a few escorts for the previous one that had accepted the choice.

They would not make that mistake once more.

The structure that slowly rotated within the ring began to slow…to stop. Gradually, the lights all over its arms began to fade, from the edge-inwards. The central ring of lights around the inner ring started to grow in intensity, as if to compensate for the darkness on the outside ring. Then, the plating on the inside of the structure’s inner ring began to glow a strange shade of grey, lighting up the ships present in front of it.

Slowly, steadily, a light-source began to develop in the very centre of the inner ring. At first, it was nothing but a tiny pinprick, nothing more than a point of light. Yet it had a certain darkness to it that made it cast out a grey color to the surroundings.

It quickly grew however; opening up and forming a grey vortex that spun rapidly. Inside, one could easily see grey-black clouds of…something churn and boil. However, not all movement was as such. Even in the thickest of storms, there would be absolutely still spots that simply did not move despite the fact that everything around it reacted as if they were indeed moving. It was as if entropy had been split apart and then either frozen in place, or accelerated beyond imagination here. In places, time even seem to roll backwards, with localized pockets within these places that suddenly began to run forward, which in turn held smaller pockets that ran backwards and then forwards again.

And then, as the vortex reached it’s peak, if one were to look into the storm carefully enough, they would see off in the distance, at it’s very centre, nothing more than a blackness…a nothingness, as it were…

The destroyers did not seem daunted by the storm or this presence, however, and instead began to accelerate within the vortex. The first few fighters zoomed ahead, their afterburners leaving a white trail across space as they accelerated into the vortex, seemingly ignorant of all the laws of inertial physics. The cruisers followed soon after, then by the corvettes and the destroyers.

Finally, after a full minute, the vortex’s rotation began to slow, and it grew smaller. Gradually, it all but disappeared into the vacuum of space, almost as if it – and the fleet it had just consumed – had never existed in the first place.

However, this gateway did have an exit. In another universe, and indeed, another galaxy altogether, a similar structure lay in the orbit of a lonely gas giant, which in turn continued in it’s slow, long orbit of the sun. It was identical to the first structure, except that there was no ring rotating around this one.

But that did not change its purpose, to act as a gateway for those that wished to pass the gap between the universes. And as it opened a vortex similar to the one the other structure had displayed just seconds earlier, this was a purpose it was still well-suited for.

The destroyers’ fleet arrived in real-space with precision and ease. The fleet mind took over almost immediately and analyzed the situation. Finding no hostiles, the fleet mind then attempted to find out the nature of the aberration in this universe.

It did not like what it saw. The aberrations had grown here at an unprecedented scale, and unlike the universe they had just come from, and fought hard to maintain, this one was on the verge of collapse. The energy-realm they used for travel and living was still relatively intact, however, so the fleet mind decided to take this to the next logical step.

Armed with a copy of the device the ninth had brought in, the fleet mind decided to follow the orders given to it by the prime: make immediate contact with the ninth’s alternate-race in this universe. Although they should have waited for the ninth to arrive, both they and the creation had agreed that time would be of the essence. The ninth would take time to come to a decision. But time was now what they had, and action was needed immediately.

Rather than wait, their small group had gone ahead with the intent of rallying allies, as it were. This was not possible in the universe they had come from, simply due to their past actions. However, there was a small amount of joy and happiness in both the prime and the fleet mind as they stepped foot in this new universe…for unlike there, here they would be getting a second chance…a second chance to set things right, as it were, and to hopefully put their horrible acts behind them.

The fleet mind moved its ships into subspace and set a course through the nodes. Eventually this course would lead them through to a variety of star systems, till finally they would reach their destination.

Unbeknownst to them, this destination was currently embroiled in the middle of a vast conflict; one where the ninth’s alternate-race was fighting for it’s very survival. This alternate-race was known to the aggressors as the UNSC, and the aggressors themselves were a race of beings that, in another universe, time and place, had been wiped out by the forces of time, fate and a civilization that had, in turn, been exterminated by the great destroyers.

This race, the Covenant, as they called themselves, did not know of the cruelty or destruction that the race they called the forerunners had shown them in another lifetime and another existence. However, little did they realize there, or here, that that cruelty and destruction would shield them against the wraith of the destroyers.

And now, as the Great Destroyers closed towards Earth, the Covenant would soon learn the legacy and truth of the lie upon which they had placed most of their faith.

For quite simply for them, this was nothing short of faith’s mere end.

"Blessed be the FREDder that knows his sexps."
"Cursed be the FREDder that trusts FRED2_Open."
Dreamed of much, accomplished little. :(

 

Offline Singh

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Re: A Journey of the Forgotten
official stats for the story, as of 27/03/2006, according to the word document, and for the sake of...I dunno, stats, i guess :p

Pages: 173
Words: 82,230
Characters (no spaces): 378,987
Characters (with spaces): 460,219
Paragraphs: 1,808
Lines: 8,170
"Blessed be the FREDder that knows his sexps."
"Cursed be the FREDder that trusts FRED2_Open."
Dreamed of much, accomplished little. :(

 

Offline aceofspades

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Re: A Journey of the Forgotten
Wow...now...it begins to make sense.
I won't go through all the little mistakes, except to repeat the you shouldn't use a particular phrase (I noticed 'chosen few') too rigidly.
Also, try to give clearer 'tags' to races. You're using the same tag in different context to refer to different races.
I wonder if the Shivans eat chocolate? Or play FS2, for that matter.

 

Offline achtung

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Re: A Journey of the Forgotten
I just read through this whole thing over the past couple of days and....... WOW!

Great stuff! :yes:  Really great is an understatement.
FreeSpaceMods.net | FatHax | ??????
In the wise words of Charles de Gaulle, "China is a big country, inhabited by many Chinese."

Formerly known as Swantz

 

Offline dan87uk

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Re: A Journey of the Forgotten
I have been reading this on and off since you started it (seems like an age ago  :rolleyes:) very impressive work. Now all thats left to do is publish it  ;)

I think it would actually be better as a published piece of work, bcus its very difficult reading it post by post and when you want to go back and reference somthing its a pain in the butt to sift through all 9 pages of this thread. Besides, it'd be the first piece of fiction released about the game (someone correct me if thats wrong not 100%)  :D

anyway, i will finish by just saying..... very good work

============================================
The Only Dependable Thing About The Future Is Uncertainty

 

Offline aceofspades

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Re: A Journey of the Forgotten
Uh...no new story has been posted for six weeks...
I wonder if the Shivans eat chocolate? Or play FS2, for that matter.

 

Offline Singh

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Re: A Journey of the Forgotten
I have been reading this on and off since you started it (seems like an age ago  :rolleyes:) very impressive work. Now all thats left to do is publish it  ;)

I think it would actually be better as a published piece of work, bcus its very difficult reading it post by post and when you want to go back and reference somthing its a pain in the butt to sift through all 9 pages of this thread. Besides, it'd be the first piece of fiction released about the game (someone correct me if thats wrong not 100%)  :D

anyway, i will finish by just saying..... very good work


Thanks. I recently started a fanfiction.net account, and uploaded this entire story there in a much neater/cleaner format thats been arranged properly. just do a search on a Journey of the Forgotten and you'll find it.

The reason its not going to get published, ever, is thats crossing over with Halo 2 soon. However, that may become a bit moot considering the eventual release of Halo 3, so at this juncture...well, lets just say im keeping my options open and considering where to go.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2006, 04:29:49 am by Singh »
"Blessed be the FREDder that knows his sexps."
"Cursed be the FREDder that trusts FRED2_Open."
Dreamed of much, accomplished little. :(

 
Re: A Journey of the Forgotten
I have the read the entire story from start to present, and have loved every chapter of it, until now...

I am confused by the shivans intentions, what you write does not agree with established FS1 events, or infact the shivans at all.
First off it is stated that the Shivans attempt to communicate(and fail, mostly) then move to cut of space faring vessels that utilise subspace. Yet the opening sequence of FS1 has a terran fighter (which was void of subspace tech) which had been ambushed by the Shivans, the fighter is destroyed along with ross 128 based forces.
This is apparently a first contact encounter situation, I dont call destroying a wing of Terran fighters then proceeding to decimate and entire systems worth of instalations and ships, an attempt to communicate.

On the same point of attempting to cut off access to subspace by destroying space faring vessels, in FS1 the shivans primarily aimed  for planetary bodies and static space instalations, i.e Vasuda prime and eventually earth, ignoring and in some cases running from subspace capable vessels in favour of hitting ground based civilisation. Whilst attacking planets, they dont just aim at destroying industrial and ship building capabilities, but absolute xenocide, they even ignore ships with subspace capabilities running from the planet, in favour of killing all those who are stuck on the planet.

Heck even the ancients claim to fall back to their home system, drop space travel all together, favouring to stay on the planet due to the shivans not being a terrastrial race, yet the shivans wipe them out on their home planets, not in space, as they attempt to do to both Humans and Vasudans.

No explanation is given behind the xenocide, if the shivans were truly simply wiping out civlisations to stop them from reaching back out to the stars, it would be simpler, and less resource heavy for them to simply leave a single destroyer in orbit of any given homeworld, at the first sign of space based facilties being built, the shivans knock out the facility, any inteligent race would figure out the message. Hell they wouldnt even have to go that far, they could just camp subspace nodes and kill any ship that goes near, once again any inteligent race would be able to figure subspace is a no go.

Yes fine im am simplifying matters but the fact remains, FS1 Shivans are ruthless killers, no apparent logic or goal short of xenocide, no waisted moment spent attempting to communicate, just kill kill kill.

Apparently the lucifer fleet was scouting for aberation..... errr what?! The fleet shows up and starts jumping around wiping out planets and fleets in a coordinated destructive pattern, then seemingly swithing tactics to destroy each races homeworld. Fine the Sol system is apparently home to the new aberation patch, yet why wipe out Vasuda? Why wipe out human stations? why stage attacks on tacticaly irrelevant and in some cases static targets, if your true goal is the Sol system, why slow yourself down?

And now on to FS2, why would the Shivans having apparently made a mistake in the first great war, come out guns blazing the moment the meet the Terrans again?

Why fight the GTVA at all if all they ended up doing was jumping a bunch of juggernauts in around a sun to nuke it, the GTVA at no point had the capability, in speed or firepower to have jumped on the sathanas to stop a single one before the sun went nova. This isn't explained in FS2 and I can handle it, but the reason you give makes no sense. If the Shivan goal was that simple, all they would need to do is bring out the sathanas fleet after the single scout, jump two systems and nuke the sun then jump out, the GTVA would be unable to respond to anything that size, that quickly, jump, jump, nuke star, jump out. Why bother fighting a running battle with the GTVA?

Sorry for picking holes, I still love everything you have written, and avidly await more chapters, I just feel that the explanation given behind the Shivans motivation does not actually fit with the Shivans as portrayed in FS 1 and FS2.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2006, 01:12:04 am by radarheaf »

 

Offline Kie99

  • 211
Re: A Journey of the Forgotten
The Shivans never tried to communicate, but we tried to communicate with them and their response was violence.


The only planet The Lucifer destroyed was Vasuda Prime, other than that it stuck to installations and ships.
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"Like I said, no hard feelings"

 

Offline FireCrack

  • 210
  • meh...
Re: A Journey of the Forgotten
Also, the shivans concentrated their actions on holding subspace nodes.
actualy, mabye not.
"When ink and pen in hands of men Inscribe your form, bipedal P They draw an altar on which God has slaughtered all stability, no eyes could ever soak in all the places you anoint, and yet to see you all at once we only need the point. Flirting with infinity, your geometric progeny that fit inside you oh so tight with triangles that feel so right."
3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944 59230781640628620899862803482534211706...
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Re: A Journey of the Forgotten
Other than the attemped ambush of the Bastion, when was this true in FS1?

 

Offline Singh

  • Hasn't Accomplished Anything Special Or Notable
  • 211
  • Degrees of guilt.
Re: A Journey of the Forgotten
I see someone is stumbling onto the mysteries that I intend to address (eventually).

I have the read the entire story from start to present, and have loved every chapter of it, until now...

Thanks. :)

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I am confused by the shivans intentions, what you write does not agree with established FS1 events, or infact the shivans at all.
First off it is stated that the Shivans attempt to communicate(and fail, mostly) then move to cut of space faring vessels that utilise subspace. Yet the opening sequence of FS1 has a terran fighter (which was void of subspace tech) which had been ambushed by the Shivans, the fighter is destroyed along with ross 128 based forces.

You are correct, yet at the same time avoiding something altogether. Ross 128 was the first place the shivans attacked...but who exactly, were they attacking there? Who says that the encounter with Gamma 39's wing was the first contact with the shivans? Remember, their is a clue here, especially in the past of some certain backstabbing allies.

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This is apparently a first contact encounter situation, I dont call destroying a wing of Terran fighters then proceeding to decimate and entire systems worth of instalations and ships, an attempt to communicate.

Again, see above.

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On the same point of attempting to cut off access to subspace by destroying space faring vessels, in FS1 the shivans primarily aimed  for planetary bodies and static space instalations, i.e Vasuda prime and eventually earth, ignoring and in some cases running from subspace capable vessels in favour of hitting ground based civilisation. Whilst attacking planets, they dont just aim at destroying industrial and ship building capabilities, but absolute xenocide, they even ignore ships with subspace capabilities running from the planet, in favour of killing all those who are stuck on the planet.

Wrong, actually. They only destroyed Vasuda Prime and headed for Earth. No other planets were harmed, from what I've read in the FS1 archives. Technically, theirs a partial aberration near Vasuda Prime as well, as you'll find out when I further Gibson's story as he returns back to the GTVA.

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Heck even the ancients claim to fall back to their home system, drop space travel all together, favouring to stay on the planet due to the shivans not being a terrastrial race, yet the shivans wipe them out on their home planets, not in space, as they attempt to do to both Humans and Vasudans.

No explanation is given behind the xenocide, if the shivans were truly simply wiping out civlisations to stop them from reaching back out to the stars, it would be simpler, and less resource heavy for them to simply leave a single destroyer in orbit of any given homeworld, at the first sign of space based facilties being built, the shivans knock out the facility, any inteligent race would figure out the message. Hell they wouldnt even have to go that far, they could just camp subspace nodes and kill any ship that goes near, once again any inteligent race would be able to figure subspace is a no go.


The problem with this is that the shivan race as a whole is fairly limited, despite being immensly vast, and their fighting a loosing war against Entropy, in a sense. Their fleet needs to be mobile, and moving quickly to fix up the Aberrations as soon as they pop up. Dont forget, even though the ancients were powerful, they weren't alone - having destroyers sitting above planets while they are needed elsewhere fighting against similarly-powered opponents is also a waste.

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Yes fine im am simplifying matters but the fact remains, FS1 Shivans are ruthless killers, no apparent logic or goal short of xenocide, no waisted moment spent attempting to communicate, just kill kill kill.

And again, I mention we dont know whether Gamma 39 was the first contact. There is a deeper, deeper thread beneath all of this that is far, far more sinister and dangerous, and explains much of what happened during the great war, and command's blunders in the second.

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Apparently the lucifer fleet was scouting for aberation..... errr what?! The fleet shows up and starts jumping around wiping out planets and fleets in a coordinated destructive pattern, then seemingly swithing tactics to destroy each races homeworld. Fine the Sol system is apparently home to the new aberation patch, yet why wipe out Vasuda? Why wipe out human stations? why stage attacks on tacticaly irrelevant and in some cases static targets, if your true goal is the Sol system, why slow yourself down?
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The question is not why wipe out Vasuda now...but why they didn't wipe it out the first time.  :drevil:

And if you scout out a route to the aberration...doesnt it serve well to sweep it clean, so that the actual 'cleaners' have a safe path through?

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And now on to FS2, why would the Shivans having apparently made a mistake in the first great war, come out guns blazing the moment the meet the Terrans again?

Why fight the GTVA at all if all they ended up doing was jumping a bunch of juggernauts in around a sun to nuke it, the GTVA at no point had the capability, in speed or firepower to have jumped on the sathanas to stop a single one before the sun went nova. This isn't explained in FS2 and I can handle it, but the reason you give makes no sense. If the Shivan goal was that simple, all they would need to do is bring out the sathanas fleet after the single scout, jump two systems and nuke the sun then jump out, the GTVA would be unable to respond to anything that size, that quickly, jump, jump, nuke star, jump out. Why bother fighting a running battle with the GTVA?

The thing is, the original goal was to wipe out the GTVA and get back to the Aberration. But remember, by the time of the capella incident, Bosch had already made contact with the Shivans, shifting priority massively. The eight had been found, and the goal was to basically abandon ship. The fastest way to withdraw was technically by jumping all the way - a task that was accomplished by supernova'ing the sun. At that point of time, the battle had become pointless and an expeditious retreat was considered best, not to mention just sealing off humanity so that they couldn't interfere.

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Sorry for picking holes, I still love everything you have written, and avidly await more chapters, I just feel that the explanation given behind the Shivans motivation does not actually fit with the Shivans as portrayed in FS 1 and FS2.

Thanks, and its your right to pick on the salient features and questions that the story leaves. Its good to know that their are people reading and paying attention, though. :)
"Blessed be the FREDder that knows his sexps."
"Cursed be the FREDder that trusts FRED2_Open."
Dreamed of much, accomplished little. :(

 
Re: A Journey of the Forgotten
Fine fine, not planetary bodies. Body then, just Vasuda Prime, but we are never actually told that their are any other colonies or inhabited planets other than Earth and Vasuda Prime, are we? maybe i'm incorrect. Either way kudos in attempting to answer most of the points I raise, however the most vital of all is not answered. Why destroy the ground based population, why absolute xenocide? First of the ancients, and then by the looks of it both humanity and Vasudans? How could the Shivans, being of such vast power and intellect be fooled into destroying Terrans on sight in the first place?

Also once again, why come out shooting at the Terran vessel outside the knossos?

More importantly than anything, whens thenext chapter due out?!?!?!
« Last Edit: May 16, 2006, 02:44:18 am by radarheaf »

 

Offline dan87uk

  • 27
Re: A Journey of the Forgotten
Fine fine, not planetary bodies. Body then, just Vasuda Prime, but we are never actually told that their are any other colonies or inhabited planets other than Earth and Vasuda Prime, are we? maybe i'm incorrect. Either way kudos in attempting to answer most of the points I raise, however the most vital of all is not answered. Why destroy the ground based population, why absolute xenocide? First of the ancients, and then by the looks of it both humanity and Vasudans? How could the Shivans, being of such vast power and intellect be fooled into destroying Terrans on sight in the first place?

Also once again, why come out shooting at the Terran vessel outside the knossos?

More importantly than anything, whens thenext chapter due out?!?!?!

You are forgetting that the NTC Trinity opened the Knossos, who's to say they didnt fire first in panic when they saw the shivan vessel? We don't know because it doesn't say in the game, but one can assume so based on Roemig's report on the game when you meet the Trinity.
============================================
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Re: A Journey of the Forgotten
What proof other than the Iceni being in the nebula do we have that they opened it, and if they did, and Singh agrees with you , why is this not covered in some sort of flashback, discovering the knossos and activating it would be a pretty big event(idea for an interlude perhaps?).