Author Topic: Another reason i love Europe  (Read 2142 times)

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Offline Tiara

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Another reason i love Europe
http://computerworld.com/softwaretopics/os/story/0,10801,98362,00.html?from=homeheads

Quote
Microsoft was ordered to release a version of its Windows operating system in Europe without its Windows Media Player, and reveal enough server software code to allow rivals to build competing products that work well with Windows. It also levied a fine of $658 million, which Microsoft has already paid; the sum is being held in a special account pending the appeal's outcome.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Linux + full windows compatability = ownage! ;7
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Offline aldo_14

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Another reason i love Europe
Incidentally, because of changes in the exchange rate over the length MS' (failed) appeal, the dollar value of the fine has went from $600m initially to $668m.

 

Offline Roanoke

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Another reason i love Europe
Europe does indeed rock.

 

Offline Rictor

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Another reason i love Europe
Not that I like Microsoft, I don't, but I don't see what the right the government has to force you to exclude certain features from your own product and release your own software code to competitors.

What happened to free enterprise?

 

Offline aldo_14

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Another reason i love Europe
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
Not that I like Microsoft, I don't, but I don't see what the right the government has to force you to exclude certain features from your own product and release your own software code to competitors.

What happened to free enterprise?


I believe removing monopolistic practices is considered a key part of allowing free enterprise and fair trade.

 

Offline Taristin

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Another reason i love Europe
Europe is turning more and more socialist, bud :p

Anywho, I want linux with windows compatability...  I'd switch in a heartbeat if it was there. Wine sucks.
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Offline Bobboau

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Another reason i love Europe
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
...


oh, my God, Lord Ashcroft got ahold of 'eh, he's nothing more than a shadow of a shell of the man he once was :(
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Offline Janos

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Another reason i love Europe
no he just saw the light
lol wtf

 

Offline vyper

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Another reason i love Europe
Monopolies are just another type of market share - I personally don't object to them in principle.

However, on this occassion... heh
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Offline karajorma

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Another reason i love Europe
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
Not that I like Microsoft, I don't, but I don't see what the right the government has to force you to exclude certain features from your own product and release your own software code to competitors.

What happened to free enterprise?


You're not allowed to leverage a monoploy in one market to achieve dominance in another. If you don't prevent this sort of thing you'd end up with one omnicorp owning everything.

 Where's the free enterprise in that?
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Offline Mongoose

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Another reason i love Europe
Along the same lines as Rictor, why should a court be able to prevent Microsoft from including its own media player (freely available for download, and easily uninstalled) on its own OS?  I mean, I'm no Microsoft fanboy, but why should a private company have to take steps allowing its competitors to gain an advantage over it?  Whatever happened to "laissez-faire"?  I see it this way:  if you want to use another company's media player, it's on you to make the switch, not on Microsoft to stop promotion of its own product.  As for the other companies, if they can't hack it, let them go bankrupt.

 

Offline redmenace

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Another reason i love Europe
I am sorry but this is so gay. I do not see any wrong doing by microsoft. What have they done. managed to achieve a majority of the market share? What anti-competitive actions have they taken? I don't like microshaft. But unless they have perpetrated grievous anti-trust violations I don't see an issue. All I see is a over-zealous and corrupt organization that is annoyed by the power microsoft has. Although, I will be frank, AMD got a legup in a situation like this.

Also, these people are dolts. All microsoft has to do is to come out with a new version of server ASAP. But then again I am sure some fags are going to see that as anti competitive as well.
Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.
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Offline karajorma

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Look at what MS did to the browser market with IE.

It took years for that to recover. During which there was no innovation whatsoever. That's why monopolies are bad. They remove competition and prevent creativity.
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Offline aldo_14

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Another reason i love Europe
There are 2 main issues;

Firstly, the inclusion of Media Player acts to damage consumer choice; restricting the consumer from having any choice in which media player they have initally installed on their PC.  Imagine if, for example, MS bundled a free copy of Office with Windows - what would that do to the likes of Lotus (or whoever owns them now)?

Secondly, the refusal of MS to release certain API / interface details to allow software/hardware manufacturers to develop compatible products with windows (or at least easily develop them); in the latter case this effectively monopolizes who can develop software for windows PCs (windows being a virtual monopoly already), and hands control of that to MS.

It's the latter you should focus on.

 

Offline Cyker

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Another reason i love Europe
It's a balance thing - If you extrapolate it to the point where MS bundled everything and the kitchen sink with their OS, it would kill off almost everyone and they would indeed become an all encompasing omni-corp with the world at it's mercy.

Of course, this is slightly bunk, because people aren't FORCED to use things like MediaPlayer and IE, they just do because they are too lazy/thick.
IE has a stranglehold on the market, yes, but it got this way because Netscape was crap.
Before then, it was Netscape that had a monopoly on webbrowsers but nobody *****ed about them - It was only after MS went and made a better browser (IE1&2 died miserably, IE3 'tho, that kicked NS3's ass) that they got killed off.
Of course, they stupidly sat on their laurels after their Embrace&Extend killing tactics, and IE is now in danger of being killed off by FF, but that's the way of things ;)


While mostly applauded, I can see this decision it causing problems because it sets a dangerous precedent - Cut it another way and extrapolate that, and you could have commercial compiler companies getting an injuction against GCC -

"It's not fair, them bundling a free compiler with their distro, it is an unfair competitive practice!"

And then we can get silly: Most of you (the deluded XP users anyways :P) probably like the transparent Zip File access - It's handy and neat, but what if PK/WinZip called them out for it?

Or better yet, the EditPad/UltraEdit people calling MS out over Notepad? Where does it end?

We can only hope that the judges can make informed and sensibly balanced solutions about such things.

...

Damn, we're ****ed aren't we?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2004, 12:16:57 pm by 1418 »

 

Offline Nuke

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Another reason i love Europe
europe rules! :D

i dont like microsoft's tendency to make an "operating system" do everything. all an operating system needs to do is operate the phucking system. i think of ald versions of mac os, supported multitasking, networking, and managed my files. whole system fit on a single floppy disk. why windows uses up a gigabyte of space i dont know.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2004, 12:24:42 pm by 766 »
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Offline aldo_14

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Quote
Originally posted by Cyker
It's a balance thing - If you extrapolate it to the point where MS bundled everything and the kitchen sink with their OS, it would kill off almost everyone and they would indeed become an all encompasing omni-corp with the world at it's mercy.

But, cut it another way and you could have commercial compiler companies getting an injuction against GCC -

"It's not fair, them bundling a free compiler with their distro, it is an unfair competitive practice!"


While mostly applauded, I can see it causing problems - For instance, most of you (the deluded XP users anyways :P) probably like the transparent ZipFile access - It's handy and neat, but what if PK/WinZip called them out for it?

Or better yet, the EditPad/UltraEdit people calling MS out over Notepad? Where does it end?

We can only hope that the judges can make informed and sensibly balanced solutions about such things.

...

Well we're ****ed aren't we?


The worst possible consequence would be a barebones OS where the bonus components were downloadable.  Which might not be a particularly bad thing for windows, given the amount of tat contained within it.

 

Offline Cyker

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Another reason i love Europe
No, the worst possible consequence is where Linux distros cannot exist anymore because you aren't allowed to bundle anything with them.

Be careful when you support anything like this because it can cut both ways...

As Microsoft can attest, as they are now finding this out with regard to Patents :evil grin:

 

Offline redmenace

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Another reason i love Europe
Maybe, an option to install media player or not install media player. But see from a common sense standpoint Windows is thier intellectual property. Why the heck should they disclose facts about the operating system. They give out development packages, use those. And frankly, nothing is preventing others from installing a different media program. It is their browser, their OS, their media player. Why they hell can't they bundle it. This is my real problem with modern day enforcement of Anti trust law. They are not going after companies for vertical or horizontal monopolies. Now it is in the name of "consumer protection" and what not. I am sorry I don't feel threatened by MS. maybe a little annoyed at times.
Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else.
              -Frederic Bastiat

  

Offline Cyker

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Another reason i love Europe
I must say I wish they were forced to decouple IE, WMP, Explorer etc. so they were not so tightly tied into the OS 'tho...