[TrashMan]

Crap...tomorrow I have to leave my PC and trot to Split (a town 65km away, were I go to colluege). Won't be back for a few days....

[Lynx]

OMG beam kannons are so kool let's put them on EVERYTHING!!!!1121oneone:rolleyes:

[pecenipicek]

jadni čovjek

[Knight Templar]

Okay, a Knossos device or Terran Equivalent of a doorway. Say it's an important doorway, strategically, like, to your house. Now, the main purpose of the door is to allow folks and yourself in and out of the house. If you have any enemies, naturally, you wouldn't want them to come in. That's why you lock the door.

Similarly, if they insist upon comming in, you usually do not have guns rigged into your doorway. If the King of England is trying to break into your house, your doorway does not shoot him. You usually carry a firearm of some sort yourself, and either intercept said evil king inside or outside of your door.

[TrashMan]

Yeah, but normally, there aren't doors as big and as important as this ne. And military likes to put guns on everything.....

[Knight Templar]

It doesn't matter how important it is. Putting spikes on the edges just looks dumb. I'm betting the Knossos portals were of some degree of importance when they were built, but you don't see them with Beam Cannons.

This is what weapons platforms are for.

[TrashMan]

Well the guns are staying!

In my campaign the gateway was designen by a drunken Admiral, member of the Gun Lovers Assotiation. Satisfied?

[NGTM-1R]

Originally posted by Knight Templar
Similarly, if they insist upon comming in, you usually do not have guns rigged into your doorway. If the King of England is trying to break into your house, your doorway does not shoot him. You usually carry a firearm of some sort yourself, and either intercept said evil king inside or outside of your door.

No, you don't. But the military might. Faulty example.

[Knight Templar]

No it's not.

Go watch SG-1. They don't have lasers and explosives and trip-mines and machine guns mounted on the gate. They have the iris, which effectively closes the door and locks it. If that's not enough, or they want more security, they have soldiers with guns come in.

[Roanoke]

I'm with KT on this one. The energy required to produce a knossos portal rules out the possability of mounting any significant weaponry.

[NGTM-1R]

Originally posted by Knight Templar
No it's not.

Go watch SG-1. They don't have lasers and explosives and trip-mines and machine guns mounted on the gate. They have the iris, which effectively closes the door and locks it. If that's not enough, or they want more security, they have soldiers with guns come in.

I recall several episodes where they had missile launchers pointed at the gate, ready to fire, as well, but it's still a faulty example.

We are, after all, talking about a giant, manned, space-based construct. The proper analogy here wouldn't be a door, but rather something like a narrow straight. That matches both the scale and the usage of a Knossos much more closely.

They already have crew onboard, which will require some kind of defenses. Otherwise the crew is not going to work on the thing. Stationing ships there permanently to defend it is a waste, both tactically and logistically. A seperate defense platform is also logistically wasteful. Post-Capella, the GTVA can't afford that waste.

By contrast, having the gate able to defend itself increases the tactical problems a force trying to seize it faces. They have to somehow deal with those weapons, without damaging the gate enough to render it non-functional. It decreases logistics problems, as all the parts and supplies are going to just one place. It obviates the need to place a destroyer on permanent guard duty, a waste of the offensive, and much of the defensive, potentional of a destroyer.

[Knight Templar]

Originally posted by ngtm1r


I recall several episodes where they had missile launchers pointed at the gate, ready to fire, as well, but it's still a faulty example.

We are, after all, talking about a giant, manned, space-based construct. The proper analogy here wouldn't be a door, but rather something like a narrow straight. That matches both the scale and the usage of a Knossos much more closely.

They already have crew onboard, which will require some kind of defenses. Otherwise the crew is not going to work on the thing. Stationing ships there permanently to defend it is a waste, both tactically and logistically. A seperate defense platform is also logistically wasteful. Post-Capella, the GTVA can't afford that waste.

By contrast, having the gate able to defend itself increases the tactical problems a force trying to seize it faces. They have to somehow deal with those weapons, without damaging the gate enough to render it non-functional. It decreases logistics problems, as all the parts and supplies are going to just one place. It obviates the need to place a destroyer on permanent guard duty, a waste of the offensive, and much of the defensive, potentional of a destroyer.

And rocket launchers = Mjolnirs

Weapons platforms aren't "logistically wasteful". They are semi-mobile, and would be more or less permanently in place around the device. You wouldn't need destroyers. What's logistically stupid is putting 25 beam cannons on a station should be concerned with making a stable jump-node.

And if it came to the point where a few wings of patrol fighters and a plethora of weapons platforms and such weren't enough to defend it from whatever stupidly high number of Sathanii you want to through at it in your campaign, then the odds are you're going to have to have a fleet there anyway.

[Jetmech Jr.]

You're joking, right? Mjolnirs are the epitomy of suck. They are also fragile, and easy to target for capships. The same can't be said of weaponry built into a massive station.

And why are we all assuming the gateway automatically knows the exact details of everything that comes through it? IIRC, it only stabilizes the node (remember the knossos, people?). It would be mighty handy having the potential to carve up unwanted guests as they appear AND be able to serve as an overall defense against attacks, something the mjolnir is almost incapable of (doesn't have a very large firing arc, and is slow as **** when turning, IIRC).

[NGTM-1R]

Originally posted by Knight Templar


And rocket launchers = Mjolnirs

Weapons platforms aren't "logistically wasteful". They are semi-mobile, and would be more or less permanently in place around the device. You wouldn't need destroyers. What's logistically stupid is putting 25 beam cannons on a station should be concerned with making a stable jump-node.

And if it came to the point where a few wings of patrol fighters and a plethora of weapons platforms and such weren't enough to defend it from whatever stupidly high number of Sathanii you want to through at it in your campaign, then the odds are you're going to have to have a fleet there anyway.

And we all know how well an Arcadia survives against a determined destroyer, or a serious bomber strike, even when defended by a small horde of advanced sentry platforms like the GTI Acheron. It doesn't. What you are advocating is essentially an Arcadia with a Knossos tacked onto it.

Weapons onboard the station present greater tactical problems to an enemy and are inherently more efficent from a logistics standpoint. It's just that simple.

Seperate weapons platforms can be destroyed seperately. If they're manned, you have to spend time shipping the crews back and forth, along with supplies. If they're not manned, they're more difficult to fix then weapons integral to the station when they break. They are also more expensive to build then just adding a few beam cannon, flak guns, and missile launchers to an existing structure. In the case of flak or missiles, they are more difficult to reload when they run low on ammo. They must be transported to the site they are supposed to defend. And so long as they are semi-mobile, then there remains the temptation to move them...and then possibly not have them there when they're needed.

Your point is also somewhat academic, since as of this time I know of no seperate weapons platform mods filling the bill for what you describe save the Acheron, and the Acheron has problems defending itself against fighter strikes.

[Roanoke]

Originally posted by ngtm1r
Weapons onboard the station present greater tactical problems to an enemy and are inherently more efficent from a logistics standpoint. It's just that simple.

Yeah, and to improve the tactical effectiveness of a Deimos, let's give it 20 BFREDs!!

[Lynx]

Putting wepons on a knossos or any installation that's not meant for defense or security is stupid. In 99,99% of the cases those things are built at sevcure places in a secure area in peacetime. A knossos, for example is more of a scientific object. So putting weapons on it would be apointless waste of money and resources. If you have to secure it use turret mines.

Things like space stations and warp portals and the likes are strategic objects that the enemy will normally conquer with minimum damage rather than destroy them because by gaining them they get an advantage.
So putting weapons on an installation actually endangers it, since the attackers have to destroy those. If a station gets attacked and a few turret mines get destroyed it's usuall not as much of a loss as when they actually have to blow up chunks of the station to disable the weapons.

Giving it a small hangar and a squadron of fighters and a cover of a few sentries is far more effective since the fighters can engage a target further away from the station minimzing the risk for the installation and giving a time window to call for reinforcements while sentries can hold the enemy off when it gets attacked and the fighters can protect the sentries to maximize their effect.

Clear enough?

[TrashMan]

Originally posted by Knight Templar


And rocket launchers = Mjolnirs

Weapons platforms aren't "logistically wasteful". They are semi-mobile, and would be more or less permanently in place around the device. You wouldn't need destroyers. What's logistically stupid is putting 25 beam cannons on a station should be concerned with making a stable jump-node.

And if it came to the point where a few wings of patrol fighters and a plethora of weapons platforms and such weren't enough to defend it from whatever stupidly high number of Sathanii you want to through at it in your campaign, then the odds are you're going to have to have a fleet there anyway.

AHEM..

The gate has 4 (FOUR) BGreens. Two on the uppermost and two on the lowermost segment, facing in different directions.
On top of that, it has two Assault Cannon turrets, and 12 Laser/Flak turrets.
It has two massive generators to supply enough power forthe weapons AND the gate operations.
As you may recall, the Knosses portal had no large generators or reactors, but it still worked...

And you forget one more thing - this Jump Gate in built to establish contact with Earth. The GTVA doesn't know what ot expect.
Maby hte Earth has become hostile and militant?
Maby the Shivans are there?

And you forget one thing - if hte installation is so important, you wouldn't want it to fall into enemy hands - you would sooner destroy it. A even better option is to force the enemy to destroy it, while at the same time damageing his fleet.

[aldo_14]

The Knossos portal had the advantage of being built by people who knew what they were doing, though..... maybe there's a reason that it never had weapons?

and wouldn't the system closest to Sol be the most heavily populated and thus have the largest in-system defenses anyways?

Oh, and why aren't there IFF-tuned meson / anti-matter mines around it in that case?

[TrashMan]

Currently re-working some of my older ship...and finishing this one:


This is NOT the texture, but I'm rahter using this model to render it and make a texture out of it....

EDIT: - about the Archangels turrets - the ship is 3024 polys wihout turrets, 4880 polys with all turrets, 6844 with debris...
could add more detail to turrets I gues....

[Getter Robo G]

The point is moot. It's his model and campaign, plus I like the idea. I think the turrets need a bit more work but other than that nice design (and reasoning).

now stop screwing around and making all these wonderful things and get back to RT!   (kidding)!