Author Topic: *funky blue smoke rises from the Lunatic Fringe* I've been thinking...  (Read 2092 times)

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Offline Liberator

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 210
*funky blue smoke rises from the Lunatic Fringe* I've been thinking...
..but what if the reason that we aren't picking up signals from other sentient species is because of either of a couple of really rather depressing possibilites?

1)We're The First.  Nowhere else in the universe is/has there been life as advanced as us.

2)We're The Last.  The Universe is older that we think.  Life has come and gone and we are all that's left.

I'd actually be happier with 1 rather than 2 for obivous reasons.
So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

There are only 10 types of people in the world , those that understand binary and those that don't.

 

Offline Corsair

  • Gull Wings Rule
  • 29
*funky blue smoke rises from the Lunatic Fringe* I've been thinking...
"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." - Calvin & Hobbes
Wash: This landing's gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: *shrug* "Oh God, oh God, we're all gonna die"?
Mal: This is the captain. We have a little problem with our entry sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and then... explode.

 

Offline Ace

  • Truth of Babel
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    • http://www.lordofrigel.com
*funky blue smoke rises from the Lunatic Fringe* I've been thinking...
When thinking about things like SETI you have to realize that the radio signals Earth is sending are starting to be reduced since communications such as the internet and the way communications are being done is different.

Instead of high power broadcasting we have tighter signals being sent via satellites, etc.

So the window of detectability through EM transmissions is rather small. It's like a developing civilization has a sort of "shockwave" that expands.

Of course, very advanced civilizations with things like dyson spheres might not be able to be detected at all except by heat pollution.

However, due to things like gamma ray bursts, the habitable zone of the galaxy changing over time, etc. I'm assuming that we're probably one of the first or with a batch that's at about the same level of development.

Your second option is doubtful, even with the accelerating expansion of the universe the 'heat death' is trillions of years off. There's plenty of time for new star systems and species to develop, let alone existing ones to have things.

For a long time everyone assumed planets were rare. Now we're finding them. Then people assumed solar system like systems were rare, we're starting to find them.

People assume that earth like planets, life, and sentience are rare. I'm pretty confident that it's very common. ...and that people need to start shedding preconceptions about the universe they cling to and start looking at the bigger picture.
Ace
Self-plagiarism is style.
-Alfred Hitchcock

 

Offline Rictor

  • Murdered by Brazilian Psychopath
  • 29
*funky blue smoke rises from the Lunatic Fringe* I've been thinking...
Do you honestly think that any civilization, no matter how advanced, could build a giant sphere around its solar system?

...Or am I thinking of something else?

edit: what about the Shivan theory? That civlizations were around, they just got wiped out by an all powerful species of 6-legged monsters? I think that this warrants serious scientific inquiry. Now if I could only find someone willing to fund me...
« Last Edit: January 07, 2005, 10:18:45 pm by 644 »

 

Offline Bobboau

  • Just a MODern kinda guy
    Just MODerately cool
    And MODest too
  • 213
*funky blue smoke rises from the Lunatic Fringe* I've been thinking...
though you should realy only change what you beleive when you get information that chalenges it, we don't want to go off half cocked on some wild adventure in wrongness.
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Offline Bobboau

  • Just a MODern kinda guy
    Just MODerately cool
    And MODest too
  • 213
*funky blue smoke rises from the Lunatic Fringe* I've been thinking...
yes assumeing it doesn't get killed off by it'self or something else before then
« Last Edit: January 07, 2005, 11:01:40 pm by 57 »
Bobboau, bringing you products that work... in theory
learn to use PCS
creator of the ProXimus Procedural Texture and Effect Generator
My latest build of PCS2, get it while it's hot!
PCS 2.0.3


DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together

 

Offline Carl

  • Render artist
  • 211
    • http://www.3dap.com/hlp/
*funky blue smoke rises from the Lunatic Fringe* I've been thinking...
considering the factors require for advenced civs, it is not implausible that we are the only advanced species in the galaxy.
"Gunnery control, fry that ****er!" - nuclear1

 

Offline Ford Prefect

  • 8D
  • 26
  • Intelligent Dasein
*funky blue smoke rises from the Lunatic Fringe* I've been thinking...
Our sun is one star in one galaxy.





That is why I can never believe we are the only intelligent life in the universe.
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel

 

Offline Liberator

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 210
*funky blue smoke rises from the Lunatic Fringe* I've been thinking...
roll it back though, there is no way in hell we'll ever have a presence in one of those galaxies, their just to damn far away.  Some of that light is hundreds of millions of years old, those galaxies might be smoldering cinders by now.
So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

There are only 10 types of people in the world , those that understand binary and those that don't.

 

Offline Ford Prefect

  • 8D
  • 26
  • Intelligent Dasein
*funky blue smoke rises from the Lunatic Fringe* I've been thinking...
Well, if you're just thinking of aliens that we will someday contact, then that certainly narrows it down.

But even being as pessimistic as possible, taking out a massive chunk of the raw input from these photos, we're still left with a number of stars that is simply incomprehensible.

Whether we'll ever see them is another matter, but I'm sure they're out there.
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel

 

Offline Turnsky

  • FOXFIRE Artisté
  • 211
  • huh?.. Who?.. hey you kids, git off me lawn!
*funky blue smoke rises from the Lunatic Fringe* I've been thinking...
a galaxy is a a disc of countless billions of stars, most of which may have a planet or six orbiting them, add to that fact, that the universe is potentially made up of several clusters of galxies, in themselves reaching billions... it kinda makes you feel smaller than this here full stop    .

i'm still a supporter of the notion that this galaxy gets "older" the further you go into it.
   //Warning\\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
do not torment the sleep deprived artist, he may be vicious when cornered,
in case of emergency, administer caffeine to the artist,
he will become docile after that,
and less likely to stab you in the eye with a mechanical pencil
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Offline Nuke

  • Ka-Boom!
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  • Mutants Worship Me
Re: *funky blue smoke rises from the Lunatic Fringe* I've been thinking...
Quote
Originally posted by Liberator
..but what if the reason that we aren't picking up signals from other sentient species is because of either of a couple of really rather depressing possibilites?

1)We're The First.  Nowhere else in the universe is/has there been life as advanced as us.

2)We're The Last.  The Universe is older that we think.  Life has come and gone and we are all that's left.

I'd actually be happier with 1 rather than 2 for obivous reasons.


possibility #3:
there is no intelegent life in the universe. we only think we are intelegent and asume that we werent one of the universes big **** ups :D
I can no longer sit back and allow communist infiltration, communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Nuke's Scripting SVN

 

Offline Liberator

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 210
*funky blue smoke rises from the Lunatic Fringe* I've been thinking...
Nuke, that is exactly[/] possibility 1, that we are the First intelligent life that the Universe has spawned, even now there may be others on a slower path perhaps only having entered the Stone Age or perhaps their development was halted during their  "Greek" Era somehow.  

In order for us to be able to detect them they would need to have been at the same level as us and proceed at a similar or slower rate.  That means that none of the stars within ~14 parsecs(60 lightyear) have advanced life around them or one(or more) of them have life that is more advanced than us, perhaps radiacally so.

There are some few who believe that we were put here by another race in order to develop socially into beings who, while perhaps not craving it like Klingons, are very good at battle and that one day they will return and claim us for use as shock troops in interstellar warfare.  

Others believe that the myth of Atlantis was actually a group of expatriates from somewhere else that came to this world to seek a hiding place and that they commited the a cardinal sin by engineering us and cross-breeding(the Nehpilim).

There's no end to the wild theory's, but the realities, once contemplated seem to put the kibosh on that kind of fanciful thinking.  Even for a nutjob like me.

If you're wondering what brought this on, go read Ring by Steven Baxter, which basically details the death of the universe and the survival of the human race(all 2000+ of us, half of whom are over 500 years old and one is over 1000).  It is really kind of depressing.
So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

There are only 10 types of people in the world , those that understand binary and those that don't.

 

Offline aldo_14

  • Gunnery Control
  • 213
*funky blue smoke rises from the Lunatic Fringe* I've been thinking...
You forget all the 'time wasted' by the evolution and then extinction of the dinosaurs.... avanced life has effectively developed twice in this planets lifespan.  I think it's entirely plausible that not only are there advanced forms of life on other worlds, but that they can easily be thousands or millions of years more advanced.  

I agree with the idea that, whilst the odds on life, and sentient life, developing are large - vast even - the universe (and even just the local space of our galaxy) is so utterly, utterly gigantic that it's inevitable we aren't alone.  The only question is how far we have to travel.

 

Offline Janos

  • A *really* weird sheep
  • 28
*funky blue smoke rises from the Lunatic Fringe* I've been thinking...
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
You forget all the 'time wasted' by the evolution and then extinction of the dinosaurs.... avanced life has effectively developed twice in this planets lifespan.  


what

What?

Edit for content: Advanced life developed once, different varieties of it have kinda died. Archosaurs are alive (birds, crocodiles). Reptiles are alive and doing well. Mammals are quite alive and kicking, and it's been over 200 million years.

People often think that extinction of one branch of archosauria was somehow supermassive. Mammals had been there for 135 million years by then, birds were there, lizards were there.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2005, 08:34:41 am by 1621 »
lol wtf

 

Offline aldo_14

  • Gunnery Control
  • 213
*funky blue smoke rises from the Lunatic Fringe* I've been thinking...
THere have been predictions that the evolutionary trend of dinosaurs - the likes of Troodon for example - was being directed towards increasing brain mass and dexterity, and that as such it was likely a dinosaur of human-like intelligence would have eventually emerged.

Whether or not that would / could happen, the extinction prevented that.  IIRC there were no large brain-mass / body mass land animals that survived and evolved from the Cretaceous extinction, the thread likely to lead to the quickest evolution of higher intelligence was cut off  (because neither birds, nor sharks, nor rodentary/mammilian life, lizards, etc had reached that stage of intelligence).  That is what i mean by advanced life.

 

Offline Kazan

  • PCS2 Wizard
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  • Soul lives in the Mountains
    • http://alliance.sourceforge.net
*funky blue smoke rises from the Lunatic Fringe* I've been thinking...
liberator for once your musings have nothing to do with the lunatic fringe
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"The Mountains are calling, and I must go" - John Muir

 

Offline Corsair

  • Gull Wings Rule
  • 29
*funky blue smoke rises from the Lunatic Fringe* I've been thinking...
zing!
Wash: This landing's gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: *shrug* "Oh God, oh God, we're all gonna die"?
Mal: This is the captain. We have a little problem with our entry sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and then... explode.

 

Offline Genryu

  • 24
*funky blue smoke rises from the Lunatic Fringe* I've been thinking...
And once again, in a peaceful thread, kazan cometh.... :p
Man is making better fool proof machines everyday. Nature is making bigger fools everyday. So far, Nature is winning.
- Albert Einstein
"What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy?"
- Gandhi

 

Offline Kazan

  • PCS2 Wizard
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  • Soul lives in the Mountains
    • http://alliance.sourceforge.net
*funky blue smoke rises from the Lunatic Fringe* I've been thinking...
i was paying him a compliment
PCS2 2.0.3 | POF CS2 wiki page | Important PCS2 Threads | PCS2 Mantis

"The Mountains are calling, and I must go" - John Muir