[Liberator]

My assumption is based on the all too obvious fact that any heat on Titan is quickly absorbed by the surrounding colder material, and that the entire body is composed of materials in their liquid state that we use to freeze things in cryogenic plants.  It's simple when you think about it.

The surface is covered, at least in part, by a methane "snow".  If an area did manage, through some miracle, attain a temperature at which any kind of life could form, it would be blindingly obvious to all but the more ignorant because there would be a gigantic crater where one shouldn't exist, melted all the way down to the rocky core and Titan would be one lopsided moon.

We cannot conceive of how obscenely cold it is there.  That is the one word that can be used to describe Titan's climate.  

C O L D.

The surface temperature is a balmy 95.15 degrees Kelvin,-288.40 degrees Faranheit.

You wouldn't even get a chance to see you're breath solidify and fall to the ground because your blood would freeze solid almost instantaneously.

Hold an ice cube in your hand until it hurts it's so cold, then imagine something 200x colder and that's a summer's day on Titan.  We knew this before we went, the probe only confirmed it.

[Night Hammer]

sounds like a blast

[Swamp_Thing]

Originally posted by Liberator
My assumption is based on the all too obvious fact that any heat on Titan is quickly absorbed by the surrounding colder material, and that the entire body is composed of materials in their liquid state that we use to freeze things in cryogenic plants.  It's simple when you think about it.

It´s a wrong assumption, then. I´ll explain:
We know for a fact that there is ice on Titan, correct? Ice means water. We know from the pictures that there are water canals built into the bedrock, wich means that at one time there were rivers running on Titan. Now, if there were rivers, there was also underground water streams of wich i can´t remember the name in english. Freatic something..? Anyway, put that all together, add volcanic activity, and you get geysers, thermal springs and other such events. Following me so far?
Now lets see the temperature, that you claim drains the heat away.
Have you ever seen a japonese breed of monkeys that bathe in a thermal spring? Well, the temperature in that mountain reaches often -50 degrees celsius (not Kelvin), and yet the water maintains itself at a very cosy 60 degrees celsius. If your claims were accurate, those monkeys would be monkesicles by now, wouldn´t they? Yeah, i know, you are probably thinking "but it´s waaaaay colder in Titan". The simple fact is, it doesn´t matter how cold it is in Titan, what matters is the thermal amplitude. What matters is the diference between the thermal spring´s temp and the ambient air temp. Titan could be -500 degree celsius, and still the spring could be hot enough to support life. Liguids hold temperatures better than air, and plus there is an endless supply of geothermal heat. Not to mention that there are springs where the water is much hoter than a simple 60 degrees.
Look, do a little experiment. Fill a pot with boiling water, and place it in your freezer, and see how long it takes for the water to reach the freezer´s temperature. Simple.
Now imagine that you place a bunsen burner inside the freezer with the pot, because geothermal activity never ceases. The heat keeps coming up and heating the water.

Oh, and another thing: the arctic temperatures reaches sometimes -70 dergrees and less, and yet polar bears live there with no problems. Why do you think unicelular life could not live in such temperatures, if mammals can?

Lesson over. Be ready, there will be a test tomorrow.

[Lynx]

Originally posted by Swamp_Thing

We know for a fact that there is ice on Titan, correct? Ice means water. We know from the pictures that there are water canals built into the bedrock, wich means that at one time there were rivers running on Titan. Now, if there were rivers, there was also underground water streams of wich i can´t remember the name in english.

Wrong.

Those river beds and shore lines are most probably formed by fluid methane which is abundant on Titan and. freaking.cold. Alternatively it could be formed by flowing water ice, though judging by the temperatures it would happen very slowly.

Originally posted by Swamp_Thing
Freatic something..? Anyway, put that all together, add volcanic activity, and you get geysers, thermal springs and other such events. Following me so far?

As a small body, Titans mass is too low to sustain any volcanic or geothermic activity itself for prolonged time(there might have been some after it'S formation though, but not for long) and it's too far away from Saturn to be significantly influenced by it's gravitational pull. As Bobbau said, if there's any geothermic activity, it's geysers of fluid nitrogen.

Originally posted by Swamp_Thing

Now lets see the temperature, that you claim drains the heat away.
Have you ever seen a japonese breed of monkeys that bathe in a thermal spring? Well, the temperature in that mountain reaches often -50 degrees celsius (not Kelvin), and yet the water maintains itself at a very cosy 60 degrees celsius.

Where did you get that!!?!

 

Originally posted by Swamp_Thing
If your claims were accurate, those monkeys would be monkesicles by now, wouldn´t they? Yeah, i know, you are probably thinking "but it´s waaaaay colder in Titan". The simple fact is, it doesn´t matter how cold it is in Titan, what matters is the thermal amplitude. What matters is the diference between the thermal spring´s temp and the ambient air temp. Titan could be -500 degree celsius, and still the spring could be hot enough to support life.

There are no seasons on Titan, so there are no significant changes in the thermal amplitude. Titans axis is too stable and Saturns orbit around the sun isn't eccentric enough to cause significant temperature changes. And to build more complicated biological components you'd probably need a rather stable climate.

Originally posted by Swamp_Thing

Oh, and another thing: the arctic temperatures reaches sometimes -70 dergrees and less, and yet polar bears live there with no problems. Why do you think unicelular life could not live in such temperatures, if mammals can?

Lesson over. Be ready, there will be a test tomorrow.

And where do this bears originally come from?

Life has a very good adaptability to various climates, but that doesn't mean **** if there's no life in the frst place, since for the formation of life you need rather high temperatures to support the formation of advanced bological chemical compounds, a climate that has never ever existed on Titan. Life on earth, no matter what theory, needed a stable and warm climate to form.
If you're looking for a world similar to titan, it's not Earth, but Neptune moon Triton which is very similar in it's overall surface and chemical composition to Titan.

Lesson over.

[Janos]

Originally posted by Tiara

Dude, do you not know how the sun grows in intensity? In a few billion years it'll be just as hot there as it is here on Earth.

Sun has about 5 billion years left, Titan is in a bit of hurry.

And most organic compounds mean preciously little - they tell as much as "well, see, here we have organic compounds!".

[vyper]

You lot watched ET on bbc1 last night didn't you? That's what this is all about.

[Tiara]

Originally posted by Janos


Sun has about 5 billion years left, Titan is in a bit of hurry.

Ehm, the sun has about 5 billion years left as a main sequence star. But before that, the sun will have grown to a subgiant (still main sequence though) also warming up Titan. Not to mention that the sun will remain a red giant for 250 million years. In total, the temperature on Titan would be below -120° C for 1 billion years IIRC.

[Lynx]

Even as red giant, the sun won't warm Titan significantly, but Mars would be shifted into the habitable zone, and the Jupiter moons, while still being cold, would be warmed up a few degrees.

[Janos]

Originally posted by Tiara

Ehm, the sun has about 5 billion years left as a main sequence star. But before that, the sun will have grown to a subgiant (still main sequence though) also warming up Titan. Not to mention that the sun will remain a red giant for 250 million years. In total, the temperature on Titan would be below -120° C for 1 billion years IIRC.

Still not enough time or heat.

[Tiara]

Originally posted by Lynx
Even as red giant, the sun won't warm Titan significantly, but Mars would be shifted into the habitable zone, and the Jupiter moons, while still being cold, would be warmed up a few degrees.

Titan would be heated up from -178 degrees to -100 degrees. That is a significant change.

And Mars would be burning so hot, you really won't wanna be there. Earth might even be envelopped in the sun itself;



Also, it seems to me like people are talking about intelligent life. No, there won't be enough time for that. DUH! But i'm talking simple life.  And there is more thgen enough time for that to form.

[Lynx]

Don't forget that the sun get's colder while it inflates. As red giant it probably only has 2500-3000 Kelvin.

[Tiara]

Originally posted by Lynx
Don't forget that the sun get's colder while it inflates. As red giant it probably only has 2500-3000 Kelvin.

That's the surface. The corona is actually much hotter then the surface.

[Black Wolf]

Still, I don't see the relevance of Titan's conditions when the sun hits red giant 5 bn years from now if the question at hand is whether it is now of any relevance in the study of early life or early earth.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Lynx
As Bobbau said, if there's any geothermic activity, it's geysers of fluid nitrogen.

Ummmm. No