Author Topic: Here's a geeky question (Read 1719 times)

Liberator · **on:** January 19, 2005, 08:18:07 pm

Okay, for the time being at least, I'm stuck with a PCI video card.

Now, I've got this soundcard that I picked up a couple of years ago, when after a format I lost the drivers for my onboard sound. The chip is an Avance Logic ALS4000. What research I've done indicates that this is a "hardware" sound card in that the decoding is handled on the card instead of by a codec and the main processor like with most AC'97 solutions these days.

My questions are these:

Is this likely to be an improvement over the AC'97 I've got onboard my mobo?

How much is this going to impact my video peformance?

Will the freed-up CPU cycles compensate for the loss of available PCI bandwidth to a soundcard?

This is my mobo.

The PCI already has the following:

Linksys NIC, the 100tx I think
ATI TV Wonder VE
and
Geforce 4 MX 420

So, with all that stuff already on the bus, is it going to be worth my time to add this soundcard in the mix?

Liberator · **Reply #1 on:** January 20, 2005, 02:17:21 pm

*bump*

Anybody?

phatosealpha · **Reply #2 on:** January 20, 2005, 09:43:23 pm

Even onboard sound needs to get it's data from the processor and back somehow. Likely, the old onboard sound was using the PCI bus just as much as this will - so, there isn't really gonna be any PCI bus bandwidth penalty vs. the old card. Should likely help gaming performance a bit, though the impact certainly won't be huge.

If anything, I imagine the biggest issue would be whether or not the driver support is there, and even if it is there, whether or not it's competent (I'm looking at you, creative labs.)

Liberator · **Reply #3 on:** January 20, 2005, 10:42:14 pm

Thanks, I'd already pretty much given up the idea. It was more of a lark than anything else.

Thorn · **Reply #4 on:** January 21, 2005, 12:08:08 am

IIRC, for the most part, onboard sound is exactly the same as your average 50 dollar card. The chip is just embedded in the motherboard instead of in an expansion card. At least thats how it is with both of the MSI boards I have. I'm not too sure on the Abit one. They are getting better in terms of sound quality, but generally, I would go with a cheap Soundblaster Live! Value, or equivalent over onboard sound. I've had this one for about... whenever it was when they first came out.
As for bus speeds, throw as much stuff as you want on there. The thing that takes up the most bandwidth on the bus would be the video card, and only during heavy use. The sound card and NIC are inconsequential. Even under heavy load, they take up next to nothing. Its why they made CNR (Communication Network Riser) and AMR (Audio/Modem Riser) slots. The little brown, quarter size ones. You can get modems and sound cards that will fit in an AMR, and NICs that fit in a CNR.

Liberator · **Reply #5 on:** January 21, 2005, 12:26:49 am

Actually, I've been doing a bit of looking at "cheap" AGP video solutions. I've tossed the FX 5200(non-ultra)/Radeon 9200 right out cause after reading several reviews I've come to the conclusion that it not any more powerful than what I've got, it just has a few more bells and whistles(and not very loud ones apparently).

The 5700 looks appealing, is the LE version a good deal at $77?

What I really want is a 6600 GT, but with my budget, not really an option(IE I can scrimp and go without for a few weeks off of what my parents let me have and maybe afford the 5700, but the top end mainstream is a pipedream without a job)

WMCoolmon · **Reply #6 on:** January 21, 2005, 12:31:45 am

I've found the Audigy 2 NX to be pretty damn nice. It's USB, so you don't have to worry about noise from the computer and you can switch it to another one easily.

Outputs: optical, coax, 1/8" 5.1, as well as a headphone jack (It auto-switches between 5.1 and headphones)
Inputs: line in, mic in, optical in
Knobs/buttons: Master volume, mic volume, mute toggle, power, CMSS toggle

It also has a remote. And, finally, it can do 24-bit/96khz sound in/out as opposed to the 16-bit/44khz of most sound cards. And you get a free DVD-audio sampler CD

My only wish is to be able to unplug it and use it as a standalone DSP. You CAN use the Extigy like that, from what I've heard, but I've never used the Extigy.

Audigy 2 NX: http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=29-102-167&depa=0
Extigy (OEM): http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=29-102-153R&depa=0

WMCoolmon · **Reply #7 on:** January 21, 2005, 01:39:51 am

Incidentally, I'm also interested in what video card to buy as well, up to about $200. 9800 Pro looks pretty good, although I've seen some X300s (Maybe an X700) priced at < $200 as well...

From what I've read a 9800 Pro gets good FPS in HL2, even with full detail settings and AA.

phatosealpha · **Reply #8 on:** January 21, 2005, 07:50:00 am

If you're talking AGP cards for $200, just can't beat the performance of the 6600GT. As of yet ATI doesn't really have an answer to the AGP 6600gt, and the 9800 pro just doesn't keep up with it.

vyper · **Reply #9 on:** January 21, 2005, 08:19:17 am

The 6600 is a cheap solution, it's going for about £149 in the UK.

Thorn · **Reply #10 on:** January 21, 2005, 08:31:30 am

Quote

Originally posted by Liberator
The 5700 looks appealing, is the LE version a good deal at $77?

My roomate got one of those a couple days ago. I'll let you know how it is once he gets a few things re-installed and is able to try it out properly.

mitac · **Reply #11 on:** January 21, 2005, 09:45:42 am

The 5700LE is a piece of junk. LE for Nvidia cards generally means "hands off", as these are the slower versions. Get a Radeon 9600 non-pro, it's faster at the same price. Just make sure it's no SE-version and the memory bus is 128 bit.

In the mainstream-area, the 6600GT is the best choice. They outperform 9800 Pro's. Pity there's no 6600 non-GT available for AGP.

Liberator · **Reply #12 on:** January 21, 2005, 12:41:35 pm

Quote

Originally posted by mitac
The 5700LE is a piece of junk. LE for Nvidia cards generally means "hands off", as these are the slower versions. Get a Radeon 9600 non-pro, it's faster at the same price.for $77.00 USD? And it's OCable to regular 5700 levels because there are no differences save the underclocking. Just make sure it's no SE-version and the memory bus is 128 bit.

In the mainstream-area, the 6600GT is the best choice. They outperform 9800 Pro's. Pity there's no 6600 non-GT available for AGP. There also the 6200 if you're aren't up to the $220.00 price tag.

I will likely never buy an ATI graphics card as ATI has problems with breaking features in various drivers because they tweak for specific games too much.

aldo_14 · **Reply #13 on:** January 21, 2005, 12:50:14 pm

So's nVidia, though; they have had a policy of putting in game specific optimisations ever since the 'Fx series is ****' furore about 18 months or so back.

Liberator · **Reply #14 on:** January 21, 2005, 12:54:32 pm

But, N doesn't have a history of low quality drivers and haven't broken features in nearly as many games.

aldo_14 · **Reply #15 on:** January 21, 2005, 12:56:53 pm

Quote

Originally posted by Liberator
But, N doesn't have a history of low quality drivers and haven't broken features in nearly as many games.

But they did monumentally **** up the 5x00 series and resort to gigantic cooling fans to try and keep up with ATI then.

(you;d never guess I was dissatisfied with my gfx card, would you.........?)

Grey Wolf · **Reply #16 on:** January 21, 2005, 01:03:29 pm

In recent history, ATI and nVidia have alternated dominance. The 4xxx series was dominant over the 8xxx series. The 9xxx series was dominant over the 5xxx series. And the 6xxx series has a slight advantage over the Xxxx series, and both now have massive cooling.

Liberator · **Reply #17 on:** January 21, 2005, 01:04:21 pm

I agree, they ****ed up the 5200, 5600 and 5800. The odd numbered 5x00s, 5700 and 5900 variants, however, easily competed with the best ATI had to offer, with the 5950 taking the crown as the best.

phatosealpha · **Reply #18 on:** January 21, 2005, 01:18:45 pm

As far as I understand it, the 5950 was a pretty decent card - as long as you weren't trying to run DX9 apps. It pretty much blew chunks when it came to DX9, as the entire FX lineup did.

Seems kinda pointless to upgrade a video card if the upgrade is gonna choke on the new stuff too.

mitac · **Reply #19 on:** January 21, 2005, 02:40:57 pm

Quote

Originally posted by Liberator

I will likely never buy an ATI graphics card as ATI has problems with breaking features in various drivers because they tweak for specific games too much.

Mhmm. Concerning overclocking, I bought a Radeon 9550 with 128 bit bus, which is basically a 9600 clocked at 250/200x2 instead of 325/200x2. I flashed the bios with one of a 9600, no problems there. It's capable of stable 400/200x2, I haven't yet tried OC'ing the memory.

Apart from that, the 9600 outperforms even the 5700.

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