[TrashMan]

Originally posted by Nico
And wouldn't allow padlock and therefore would suck.

So? FS1 didn't have padlock view and 3D cockpit. Does that means it sucks?
A 3D cockpit or a 2D cockpit, makes no real difference to me. Jsut as long as it looks good nad gives me the feel that I really am in a fighter. I don't have to look sideways to experience that.

[Nico]

Originally posted by TrashMan


So? FS1 didn't have padlock view and 3D cockpit. Does that means it sucks?
A 3D cockpit or a 2D cockpit, makes no real difference to me. Jsut as long as it looks good nad gives me the feel that I really am in a fighter. I don't have to look sideways to experience that.

FS1? it didn't have a cockpit at all.
A 3d cockpit will make you feel like you're in a fighter much more efficiently than a 2D cockpit, since the mission lighting will play on it. You won't have that with a 2D cockpit.
And I really hope we'll have padlock some day coz it's really useful, and a 2D cockpit would not allow that either, so, for me, it's 3D cockpits all the way.
Finally, since the only people who are making cockpits do 3D ones, I think there's no argument

[TrashMan]

Of course a 3D cockpit is better, but I was saying that a PADLOCK thing is totaly irrelavant (at least to me).

It would be nice, yes, but I will settle for a plain 3D cockpit...

[Gank]

Station looks like its been pulled straight out of a comic, nice like but comicy.

Iirc xwa had problems with using pilot models in the actual cockpit, clipping problems above from the eye position being inside the pilot, as well as the ability of looking down your own neck. A seperate cockpit model for the player ship would be the best way to go imo, save rendering all those hi-res cockpits for every flyable ship in a mission too.

[WMCoolmon]

I've been hearing a lot about using Bobb's submodel-LOD code to make high-poly cockpits...you could use that to decapitate the pilot, and there could be a realistic limit placed on the padlock view.

[Nico]

I'm not sure how it works tho... I've read the thread in the wing commander forum, what I've understood is that you need to add a new submodel to the ship pof?
I would have prefered a separate pof personally, that way you can add easily cockpits to any ship, w/o actually having to rework the whole pof, and it'd make updating easier...

[aldo_14]

It's not intended for just cockpits, though; it was for fighterbays in particular IIRC.

[Nico]

Yeah, I know, but that wouldn't prevent it from working for that too. Just have to be cautious so the thing is at the right place, and at the right size.
I know it's just my opinion, but I think it would make the work much easier.

[WMCoolmon]

Re separate POFs:

Yeah...but then you couldn't see your fighter if you looked around.

[Lynx]

Originally posted by WMCoolmon
Re separate POFs:

Yeah...but then you couldn't see your fighter if you looked around.

How much do you see of your ship anyways? It depends on the ship, but mostly you only see a few gun barrels on the side, or a few fins in the back or something at the most, the rest of the ship isn't visible. If it was a separate model you could invest those polies into a more detailed cockpit.

And, is there way to disable cockpits? There are always those people who cannot appreciate the superior gaming experience of playing with a cockpit and want to disable it, and right now you'd have to edit the tables for that.

[Nico]

Originally posted by WMCoolmon
Re separate POFs:

Yeah...but then you couldn't see your fighter if you looked around.

Why? you can model the visible parts of your fighter along with the cockpit, with extra details even ( rivets, etc ).

[aldo_14]

And there I was thinking these were finally finished..........

[Flaser]

Originally posted by Lynx


How much do you see of your ship anyways? It depends on the ship, but mostly you only see a few gun barrels on the side, or a few fins in the back or something at the most, the rest of the ship isn't visible. If it was a separate model you could invest those polies into a more detailed cockpit.

And, is there way to disable cockpits? There are always those people who cannot appreciate the superior gaming experience of playing with a cockpit and want to disable it, and right now you'd have to edit the tables for that.

@Lynx
It already IS optional, it WILL be optional.
How much do you see your ship? I'm afread you haven't play enough true sims to see what the point is - with a cockpit model and gagues you could finally look around a hunt bandits more effectivly - and the cockpit would tell you how your ship's oriented compared to your view.

Go play LOMAC and you'll immediately see what I mean.

@On Topic:

IMHO with this implemented it's about time to implement seemsless freelook inside the cockpit - I always hated in I-War2 and Starlancer that I couldn't keep track of my enemies,
In FS this is limited, the problem being the several blind spots between the 5 viewpoints.

One more idea - in game change of fov. It could effectivly work as ZOOM. That way you could indeed use the HUD as in the FS movie (though in a more practical, less packed form) by zooming on it, and zooming out is a good thing for padlock / freelook.

Once again I'm shamlessly pimping features I've grown fond of in LOMAC.

[gevatter Lars]

Short question...what is LOMAC???

Beside that the cockpit looks interesting...IMO you don't have the need to look at your legs, but it looks nice.

If we could now get the HUD onto the modeled cockpit it would be even more helpfull.
First for realism and second for a better view.
I asume that now you have the HUD and the cockpit in your view.

[Black Wolf]

LOMAC: Lock On: Modern Air Combat.

And Nico - I tthink this is the first time I can remember you getting excited about anything FS related in awhile.

[Lynx]

Originally posted by Flaser


@Lynx
How much do you see your ship? I'm afread you haven't play enough true sims to see what the point is - with a cockpit model and gagues you could finally look around a hunt bandits more effectivly - and the cockpit would tell you how your ship's oriented compared to your view.

Read.my.post.

I am one of the strongest fighters for the cockpit implementation, but I think a separate cockpit model would be better. You wouldn't have to rework the models to incorporate them there; you could put more polies into the cockpit since it doesn't render the whole ship.
When you look around in padlock view, what do you see? Your ships nose, perhaps, a wing and a gun barrel or something. You could incorporate this things into the cockpit model while leaving the rest of the ship that you won't see from the cockpit out, therefore you could both make the cockpit more detailed an the parts of the ship you see from the cockpit. Clear?

The cockpit implementation we have now is already more than I've ever hoped for, but separate models would be even better.

[WeatherOp]

Ahhh, LOMAC, maybe the best FS ever made or it could be the worst because of very very bad Framerate problems.

[Ghost]

Uh, question... I like the whole 3d cockpit idea, and I have two problems with it... one's already been mentioned(the regular 2d HUD is still visible over it), and the other one that I thought of was this: when you get hit in the regular game, the screen flashes red. How would that work with a 3d cockpit? Can you possibly make it so you can see either an exterior shield effect or you just see the..um..windshield..glow?

[WMCoolmon]

You can see the shield effect already if it hits in the right place, I think.

The separate cockpit model may be implementable (It depends if I can adopt the functions I know how to use.) but at the moment it's not very high on my to-do or want-to-do lists...fixing the CTDs that've cropped up with my latest builds seems more useful.

Also, I'm not sure if it would be faster to render a separate cockpit, in some situations. You'd have to load and process an additional model with additional maps. If it were very high-poly it'd definitely be an improvement...but otherwise, it seems like the curent setup is sufficient until the cockpits can actually DO something.

(I still have Aldo's separate cockpit model though, so I can always use that if I get the urge to implement a separate cockpit POF sometime)

[Lod_Viper]

Well, couldn't you technically do it through FRED. Just have a SEXP that changes your model so that when you're in the cockpit, that is the model being used for your ship, but when you switch to another view (exterior, looking at another ship... whatever) your model changes to the fighter model. Then when you switch back into cockpit view, a SEXP changes your model back to the cockpit model.

Also, couldn't you make a blank texture for the monitors inside the cockpit, and then alter the hud itself, so it *appears* to be displayed on the monitors. If we want it to look real good, we can make a fake hud texture for the monitor. That way, it will still look like the hud is being displayed on the monitors when the player uses free look to look around the cockpit and the hud disappears.