[TrashMan]

Since I'm making a campaign, I want ot get all things straightened out before I start making missions.

the thing that confuses me hte most is supbspace.

Now, the only canon subspace chase we saw was with the Lucifer, and in it, the Lucifer didn't move as far as I recall. Fighters move.
In most player campaigns, ships move trough subspace normally, just like fighters.

What I want to know is - do capships move or not? If not, why? and do smaller ship like cruiser move?


The other thing is fighters and inter-system jumps. We know fighters can't do those without special jump drives which are expensive and rare, so only a select few squardons ever get those. All shivan fighters aparently can make inter-system jumps.

In many missions I've seen TONS of fighters/bombers (NTF or Vasudan or Pirates) jumping in trough jump nodes.
I would call that the designers mistake normally, but I think I saw that in several canon missions too.

It's hard to belive that NTF or the Pirates have hunderdes of fighters with intrasystem jump drives, so I was looking for another solution to that puzzle?

Is it possible that capships project a field around themselves when they jump, that enables nearby fighters to make intra-system jumps too?

That would explain several missions, like Runnign the gauntlet, where NTF fighters keep jumping in together with NTF warships.

[StratComm]

I'll answer some of these as best as I can:

Originally posted by TrashMan
Now, the only canon subspace chase we saw was with the Lucifer, and in it, the Lucifer didn't move as far as I recall. Fighters move.
In most player campaigns, ships move trough subspace normally, just like fighters.

What I want to know is - do capships move or not? If not, why? and do smaller ship like cruiser move?

I actually think that the Lucifer does move, if slowly.  At least if memory serves, I couldn't park my fighter and gun away at her systems without getting hit by the advancing hull.  In general, I think most evidence points toward all ships moving in a subspace corridor like they would in normal space, though the speed at which they move may be slowed if it's needed for mission atmosphere (like in FS1)

Originally posted by TrashMan
The other thing is fighters and inter-system jumps. We know fighters can't do those without special jump drives which are expensive and rare, so only a select few squardons ever get those. All shivan fighters aparently can make inter-system jumps.

In many missions I've seen TONS of fighters/bombers (NTF or Vasudan or Pirates) jumping in trough jump nodes.
I would call that the designers mistake normally, but I think I saw that in several canon missions too.

It's hard to belive that NTF or the Pirates have hunderdes of fighters with intrasystem jump drives, so I was looking for another solution to that puzzle?

Is it possible that capships project a field around themselves when they jump, that enables nearby fighters to make intra-system jumps too?

That would explain several missions, like Runnign the gauntlet, where NTF fighters keep jumping in together with NTF warships.

That's a very plausable theory.  We saw the Shivans deploy fighters from the Lucifer inside subspace, and presumably these fighters would exit the corridor with the capship when it reached the other end.  Now they do have inter-system drives as you pointed out, but it would certainly explain how fighters came through with their escorts in Running the Gauntlet.  Otherwise though, there isn't much either way, as most missions involving fighting around a jump node involves the shivans or ships trying to get away through the node rather than entering it.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by TrashMan
Since I'm making a campaign, I want ot get all things straightened out before I start making missions.

the thing that confuses me hte most is supbspace.

Now, the only canon subspace chase we saw was with the Lucifer, and in it, the Lucifer didn't move as far as I recall. Fighters move.
In most player campaigns, ships move trough subspace normally, just like fighters.

What I want to know is - do capships move or not? If not, why? and do smaller ship like cruiser move?

I think so; but slower.  From what I can judge, subspace is still physical space - just an alternate plane/dimension - so you still need to move through it manually using engines.

That said, there's also apparently a 'wash' (gravitational?)that stops you moving backwards in a tunnel..... I'd guess that you could get there without engines, but it'd be really slow.

Originally posted by TrashMan

The other thing is fighters and inter-system jumps. We know fighters can't do those without special jump drives which are expensive and rare, so only a select few squardons ever get those. All shivan fighters aparently can make inter-system jumps.

In many missions I've seen TONS of fighters/bombers (NTF or Vasudan or Pirates) jumping in trough jump nodes.
I would call that the designers mistake normally, but I think I saw that in several canon missions too.

It's hard to belive that NTF or the Pirates have hunderdes of fighters with intrasystem jump drives, so I was looking for another solution to that puzzle?

Is it possible that capships project a field around themselves when they jump, that enables nearby fighters to make intra-system jumps too?

That would explain several missions, like Runnign the gauntlet, where NTF fighters keep jumping in together with NTF warships.

I don't think we've had canon pirates (Silent Threat maybe?  Not played that, you see), have we?

I would say there's no logical reason the shivans couldn't have every fighter with inter-system drives; after all, they seem ot have a lot of time and resources to build them.  With regards to GTVA, I'm not sure......  maybe by the time of FS2 these drives have become a lot more common-place?  And as the NTF, etc would probably steal or defect with these ships, it wouldn't be too unlikely IMO.  As for the HoL, perhaps some of their main squadrons were the elite ones in the PVN (after all, they had shields)?

I personally don't like the idea of capships having a 'subspace field'; from what I understand of the ref bible, ships have to vibrate at a certain frequency to open a vortex and enter subspace atall, and that requires a drive..... in order to use the same node to travel, you'd see them entering the same warpnode vortex as the capship, ala Babylon 5, and not their own.

[pyro-manic]

Theory: capital ships could launch fighters while still in subspace, so they're ready to engage the moment the carrier ship breaks warp, rather than risk arriving in a hostile zone and coming under attack while still trying to launch fighters. What do you think? Or do you need an inter-system drive to exit a node as well as enter it?

[Flipside]

Hmmmm... if it were a physical distance between entrance and exit points on the nodes, and fighters only needed intrasytem drives to enter subspace, not to exit it, it would be feasible that a capship would launch wings ahead of it's own arrival? That could also explain wings arriving alone in a Jumpnode if there is a Destroyer or Corvette en route?

[TrashMan]

Possible.

@Aldo_14:
But as I recall even in FS2 fighter inter-system jump drives are rare. Even the SOC has them only on several fighters (remember, they explicitly mentioned outfitting the maras with them).

So there must be some way those fighters got there. Remeber that even in FS1 freighters with fighter escort were jumpin in and out trough nodes (remeber that mission with 3 nodes where yo uhad to protect the transports?)

[aldo_14]

Well, the FS ref bible - IIRC - only mentions needing vast amounts of energy to open a jump node...........

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by TrashMan
Possible.

@Aldo_14:
But as I recall even in FS2 fighter inter-system jump drives are rare. Even the SOC has them only on several fighters (remember, they explicitly mentioned outfitting the maras with them).

True, but that could simply mean that the Maras didn't have them in the first place, or that the Shivan versions were toasted.

Originally posted by TrashMan
So there must be some way those fighters got there. Remeber that even in FS1 freighters with fighter escort were jumpin in and out trough nodes (remeber that mission with 3 nodes where yo uhad to protect the transports?)

Were those fighters jumping with the freighters, or simply jumping away to somewhere else insystem, though?  (did that mission happen before or after in-fighter drives were developed?)

I think you have enough ambiguity here to say what works best for your story, though; there's no definitive answer

[TrashMan]

That FS1 mission took place before Inter-system drives were discovered.

Freighters would jump in at one node together with several escort  fighters and would proceed to depart at the other node (fighters & freighters).

3 convoys passed  - 2 vasudan convoys and  1 terran. After that 2 Cains jumped in and you had to toast them.

[Anaz]

well, the ships do have to vibrate, but the subspace drives vibrate multi-dimensionally, allowing it to tunnel through subspace, so when a bigger ship pierces through into the tunnels created between systems, it is plausable that, like ripples in a pond, the larger ships carry the smaller into subspace with them.

[Sesquipedalian]

As near as I can tell, the only explanation that makes sense of it all is that one needs "vast amounts of energy to open a jump node," but that once it is open, other ships could use it until the node closes.  A fighter needs a special drive to open a node by itself, but not to enter an already open node.

I mean, if fighters can go out through a node that a cap ship has opened, why not the other way around?  In either case the opening of the node has nothing to do with the fighter's drives.

[WMCoolmon]

Maybe the ships attached to the freighters with magnetic clamps or something similar?

Or, maybe ships can travel through a subspace vortex after it's been opened, but they're incapable of traveling far from the parent vessel without intersystem jump drives.

Edit: Traveling far from the parent vessel while in subspace that is, of course that restriction wouldn't apply in normal space.

[Goober5000]

The FREDders probably just made a mistake.  It happens.

[Kie99]

The Lucifer wasn't moving in subspace

"Photographic Evidence!" I hear you cry

Well:

[TrashMan]

HAH! I KNEW IT!!!!

This makes subspace mission more difficult (and prolly bring) to make interesting...

[FireCrack]

Movement of capships in subspace is basicly a question of the mission. All ships are moving in subspace but weather they seem to be moving ingame is up to what point of reference the mission designer uses for "Zero speed"

And, elaborating on the capships have a subspace bulbble theory, it says somwhere completley canonical (tech room?) that therte are two parts to entering subspace. In part 1 the ship vibrates along all the dimensions of subspace synchronising it for the jump, and in part two the ship creates the subspace vortex and flies (or is drawn) into it.

Now, the subspace bubble theory would work very well if the fighters activates stage 1, synchronising them, but tthen instead of creating their won vortex used the cap ship's one. Posibly using the ancients subspace tracking technology to follow it.

[TrashMan]

the problem is they didn't have subspace tracking tech till the very end of FS1. Besides, the vortex is openeing right beside them. what do they need subspace tracking for?

After reading all of this, the subspace buble theory is the only one s ofar that makes sense. Anyone else has some other theory?

[WMCoolmon]

Hey, I just got an idea...maybe there are different levels to subspace, and ships on a significantly different level of vibration can't interact with each other. What the Ancients device does is detect vibrations in subspace from ships, as well as the rate they're vibrating on.

Now for some subspace exposition. Fightercraft without so-called intersystem drives are able to vibrate at a fast enough frequency that they can do an intrasystem jump, but are unable to 'submerge' themselves in subspace enough to travel between systems. When in the proximity of a capship, however, they are able to take advantage of its subspace drive to vibrate fast enough to enter the jump node by activating their subspace drive at just the right frequency to interact with the parent ship's subspace field.

What an intersystem fighter drive does is cut out the middleman - it makes the fighter vibrate fast enough to enter a jump node successfully.