Author Topic: Archangel released!!  (Read 9968 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Woolie Wool

  • 211
  • Fire main batteries
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
You're just jelous!:D

No, I think you're jealous of him.:p
16:46   Quanto   ****, a mosquito somehow managed to bite the side of my palm
16:46   Quanto   it itches like hell
16:46   Woolie   !8ball does Quanto have malaria
16:46   BotenAnna   Woolie: The outlook is good.
16:47   Quanto   D:

"did they use anesthetic when they removed your sense of humor or did you have to weep and struggle like a tiny baby"
--General Battuta

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
Quote
Originally posted by Woolie Wool


Uh, wasn't this an FS-universe ship? The SDF-1 would be corvette size by FS standards, so I don't see what your problem is. An Orion, never mind a hugeass battleship, absolutely dwarfs the SDF-1.


The SDF-1 would be destroyer-class. (With the Main Gun, the closest analogue would be BWO's Golgotha.) In fact, at 1.7 kilometers, it's remarkably similar in size to an Orion.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • FLAMES OF WAR








Dunno....Looks good to me.:D
Hmm..I overdid it a bit with the ambient factor...

@Willie Wool - actually that would be hard since I don't know what he made... I have...problems...remembering names ( but strangely I can remember some trivial things instantly..go figure)
I'm sure I saw some of his work, but I just can't connect a model with a name...
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline Getter Robo G

  • 211
  • Elite Super Robot Pilot
Woolie, no disrespect but, if you had been following the Robotech Mod it was decided that 4KM was the proper size in relation to the player's veritech in game...

   The problem with animation was in various shots it was only supposed to be 1.2km long BUT in relation to the skyscrapers and other city landmarks of Macross isle it was friggen HUGE also the inside shots of HOW the 70,000 civilians lived and reconstructed a lot of the city from slavaged buildings that was floating in space after the fold incident. Ther was so much space inside you could fly around the city with very careful manuevering. It had so much room inside civilians even had cars as luxuary items and traffic was quite heavy so the auto industry was doing great business apparently. When Trashman finishes the inside of the civilian sector (mission related areas) there should be a military base, a ampitheater, small skyscrapers, a strip mall, a major hospital, A tri level PARK that overlooks the city (minmay almost fell to her death there, darn we almost got lucky ;) )and a few other places of interest as was shown in the series (don;t forget the movie theater!!! "Litte White Dragon" was the first movie in space!

There are plenty of screens around so I won't repost but if you looked you'd see they now appear very close to what you saw in the show as far as the veritechs in relation to SDF-1, especially the landing bays and around the control area. True there is minor descrepancy with the carrier decks but overall play factors are more inportant than pure cannon. With that said now you know why I made that comparison.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2005, 10:02:05 am by 2035 »
"Don't think of it as being out-numbered, think of it as having a WIDE target selection!"

"I am the one and ONLY Star Dragon..."
Proof for the noobs:  Member Search

[I'm Just an idea guy, NOT: a modeler, texturer, or coder... Word of advice, "Watch out for the ducks!"]

Robotech II - Continuing...
FS2 Trek - Snails move faster than me...
Star Blazers: Journey to Iscandar...
FS GUNDAM - The Myth lives on... :)

 

Offline Woolie Wool

  • 211
  • Fire main batteries
I think the SDF-1 had weird magictech that increased interior space relative to exterior dimensions. Besides, the Archangel is not a Robotech ship. It's an FS ship, and it could make a fine dreadnought or juggernaut.
16:46   Quanto   ****, a mosquito somehow managed to bite the side of my palm
16:46   Quanto   it itches like hell
16:46   Woolie   !8ball does Quanto have malaria
16:46   BotenAnna   Woolie: The outlook is good.
16:47   Quanto   D:

"did they use anesthetic when they removed your sense of humor or did you have to weep and struggle like a tiny baby"
--General Battuta

 

Offline StratComm

  • The POFressor
  • 212
  • Cameron Crazy
    • http://www.geocities.com/cek_83/index.html
Trashman, I will say, having actually seen this thing's geometry, that you are still making waste of a ton of polys because of all of your square details that aren't aligned.  There is no reason that a ship of this complexity should be registering at over 3000.  That said, I have some basic shots of the mapping that I used.







I didn't finish mapping it because the geometry is an absolute nightmare to come to terms with for texturing; and because I've lost the original mapping and texture groups in conversion I just wanted to quickly point out some suggestions.

First, the turrets.  Disregard the style of the turrets I plopped on as deck guns; they are the turrets I'm using for my terran fleet and I had them handy.  Yes, they are a couple of hundred polys each, but they are also single texture and are thus highly optimized for HTL.  With the SCP we can specify a starting rotation for things, so depressed turrets (and those rear-facing ones) need to be done to not look stupid on a ship this large.  Anyway, the big point there is that they aren't technically tile mapped (ok, so those actually were before I baked the texture as I'm sure someone will point out, but even then they still weren't a single overtiled texture) and that there is detail in them that will be important when they are blown up to several hundred meters long.  Make the small turrets more detailed as well; 10 tris isn't worth rendering the subobject, quite frankly, and those squares have to be huge given the rediculous size you're assigning this thing.

Second: contrast.  I changed the base texture because the one you were using (either TCov1a or Capital7) is probably the most hideous of all the stock freespace textures when tiled (it's not seamless top-to-bottom, so it bands like hell), but I also took the step of changing the central structure to a different texture than the main hull, and one with a fairly large contrast to said base texture.  This is important, because it visually sets the superstructure apart from the mass of the hull.  The rest of the plates I also made darker; I didn't bother with the gaps because you've already got those mapped on the original and I think they stand out fine as they are.  But change them to a darker texture as well and they will become much more apparent.

Finally, I'd like to give a few critiques of the model itself.  For all of the so-called detail this ship has, it's got a lot of places that are quite frankly boring.  The fact that you've got as many polys as you do but are still using 8-sided engines is one big point, you can afford a few more polys there at the expense of some of the little recesses and bumps that don't contribute in the grand scheme of things.  Also, those square headlights on the front just don't work, so think about what options you have up there.
who needs a signature? ;)
It's not much of an excuse for a website, but my stuff can be found here

"Holding the last thread on a page comes with an inherent danger, especially when you are edit-happy with your posts.  For you can easily continue editing in points without ever noticing that someone else could have refuted them." ~Me, on my posting behavior

Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM

 

Offline Thrilla

  • 27
Originally posted by StratComm
 There is no reason that a ship of this complexity should be registering at over 3000.  

:yes:

It shouldn't even be more than 1000.  Except maybe with those turrets.
94th Combat Support Hospital, 807th Medical Brigade

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • FLAMES OF WAR
Erm..since this ships was orginally planned for the Third Chapter of my campign (the first being about 20% complete and the second will prolly be skipped) I still have at least 2-3 months before I start FREDing it, I figure I have enough time to redo it.

I might add more detail (but no, I will not put recesses on the front) and I will certanly give it another go at texturing.

You have a point about the superstructure....
The main texture you are using looks far more overtiled than the original one tough... otherwise you have good general idea.
About the turrets - yeah..it's prolly best I make a specific map for them...

As for the polycount - it's the lowest possible, trust me on that. It looks like there's too many of them in wireframe top view, since they aren't perfectly mirrored and they don't overlap.
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline Deepblue

  • Corporate Shill
  • 210
Trashman makes great models, makes crappy textures.

 

Offline StratComm

  • The POFressor
  • 212
  • Cameron Crazy
    • http://www.geocities.com/cek_83/index.html
I know that map looks overtiled, but it looks much better tiled than the other one.  Truely we need better maps than the stock ones, because most of them get overused way too easily.  I don't care if you don't recess the front (in fact, that's not what I'm advocating) but right now it looks like a primitive car grille model.  Doesn't fit the rest of the ship at all IMHO.  And I actually do know what I'm talking about with the polys; there are better ways to incorporate details that don't involve fracturing a face up into 25+ polygons than what you're still doing.  Those rows of windows in particular irk me, as do the random little steps scattered about, simply because they are so terribly wasteful of polygons with little or no actual purpose.  If you're going to go high-poly, go high poly.  None of this piddling around with basic forms.
who needs a signature? ;)
It's not much of an excuse for a website, but my stuff can be found here

"Holding the last thread on a page comes with an inherent danger, especially when you are edit-happy with your posts.  For you can easily continue editing in points without ever noticing that someone else could have refuted them." ~Me, on my posting behavior

Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • FLAMES OF WAR
You allways have to start with basic forms.

And I never fracture faces into tons of polys. I have no idea whatsoever what the hell you're talking about htere....
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline StratComm

  • The POFressor
  • 212
  • Cameron Crazy
    • http://www.geocities.com/cek_83/index.html
Actually every model that I've ever seen of yours suffers from this.  What I mean is that instead of placing your extrusions and recesses into areas where there is already a corner, you place them in the middle of a face.  The result is that where you had one polygon before you now have at least 4 (more if you're triangulating) plus whatever the extrusion entails.  And, by the way, I've finally come to the realization that you're counting triangles instead of polys (what you should do for HTL, for the record) so your polycounts are expected to be somewhat higher than average.  Still, for the level of detail the isolated recesses add you'd be much better off adding a larger design element in.
who needs a signature? ;)
It's not much of an excuse for a website, but my stuff can be found here

"Holding the last thread on a page comes with an inherent danger, especially when you are edit-happy with your posts.  For you can easily continue editing in points without ever noticing that someone else could have refuted them." ~Me, on my posting behavior

Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • FLAMES OF WAR
I add tings where it is suited in the design. wether it's in the middle of a face or on an edge or in a corner...
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline StratComm

  • The POFressor
  • 212
  • Cameron Crazy
    • http://www.geocities.com/cek_83/index.html
Now see, there you go again assuming your designs are infallible.  I can readily point out an unncecessary corner in the closeup shot that I posted that could be changed without significantly changing your design.  I feel like you're using boolean modeling, which is not only dangerous for model stability but also tends to be VERY wasteful of polys in general.
who needs a signature? ;)
It's not much of an excuse for a website, but my stuff can be found here

"Holding the last thread on a page comes with an inherent danger, especially when you are edit-happy with your posts.  For you can easily continue editing in points without ever noticing that someone else could have refuted them." ~Me, on my posting behavior

Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM

  

Offline Thrilla

  • 27
What he means is this.  When you make exstrusions in the middle of a flat surface you are not deleteing the unnecessary polys that form up as a result.  If I was at home I would show you with some Screenshots, but I'm not at home.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2005, 01:04:49 pm by 2311 »
94th Combat Support Hospital, 807th Medical Brigade

 

Offline Roanoke

  • 210
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
The thing is - the only way to increase detail on it would either be bumpmapping, or modeling all those metal pannel bumps.


At the risk of starting a flame war, you don't actually believe that, do you ?

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • FLAMES OF WAR
Quote
Originally posted by StratComm
Now see, there you go again assuming your designs are infallible.  I can readily point out an unncecessary corner in the closeup shot that I posted that could be changed without significantly changing your design.  I feel like you're using boolean modeling, which is not only dangerous for model stability but also tends to be VERY wasteful of polys in general.



There is no such thing as a wrong design.

Teh ship looks exactly like I wanted it to. Sure, there are a few places where I could have made some thing different and saved a poly or two. To you it might be a minor change, but I want the ship to look like it looks - to the very last bump.

Now, a good modeler makes a model that looks exaclty like he wants it to with no unecessary polys. I have detected 2 such places on my ship (mostly due to me not placing parts well before boolening) and I allready removed them...

Yes, I do use boolean (selectivly... I carefully choe where to put them and I prepare the area before booleaning by removing any ecess vertex) but that doesn't create more polys than needed.

My point is - Can you make a ship that looks EXACTLY like this one when rendered with less polys? hardly.

Since I am re-doing it (I allways redo my models... there's allways room from improvement) I may cahange a few thing...but that reamins to be seen...
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • FLAMES OF WAR
Quote
Originally posted by Roanoke


At the risk of starting a flame war, you don't actually believe that, do you ?


I ment on the nose of hte ship - I want the flat and smooth surface to reamin...
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!

 

Offline Roanoke

  • 210
If you set up the heirachy correctly, you don't need to boolean as much. Saves a few polies too.

 

Offline TrashMan

  • T-tower Avenger. srsly.
  • 213
  • God-Emperor of your kind!
    • FLAMES OF WAR
For crying out loud - Booleaning only cost polys if done incorrectly!

As for adding more detail:

To tell the truth, I don't like what I added to the front...still experimenting..
Nobody dies as a virgin - the life ****s us all!

You're a wrongularity from which no right can escape!