[Janos]

Originally posted by vyper
One problem though - the US import market is slowing down.  China relies on US imports a LOT.

Indeed.
But EU - and Japan! - is still here, though US's weakening economical situation is affecting us as well. And "we" - EU - are their biggest trading partner (which is kinda stupid, because EU is 25 countries with different interests and economies, whereas US is just one huge country).
However, US is China's biggest export market, pretty damn important to them and I admit that readily. However, let's go wildly and stupidly hypothetical and speculative: Imagine China's export to US would decrease from roughly 30% to something completely stupendous, say 12% (worldwide depression). It's still nearly infinetly more money than they get from NK, which has no economy to speak of and is just a geopolitical powder keg with an ADD movie freak as a leader.

There is not a single reason for China to support NK - in an event of all-out war (even without it overheating to 1 000 000 degrees in nuclear exchange) they would lose practically ALL of their trade with their important partners, would be played into an offside and hated by the world and propably raped by US military (I don't want to even think what India would do. Or Pakistan.) In 2012 the situation could be different, since China would propably have some capabilities to match US asian forces, maybe. Perhaps.

super double edit for clarity and reduced insanity

[Unknown Target]

One: China has, and has always had, close ties with North Korea. Witness the first Korean war.

Two: If the US is nuked, then they will completely obliterate NK. But not only that, if nukes are used, then think about it: All the other western countries will be pissing their pants, and rush to America screaming "You were right! You were right! We're so sorry for your loss! Let us help you get them!". Why? Because they'll be afraid they'll be next.


Three: NK can not do MAD, simply because of the ratio of size in relation to them vs. the US, and the fact that they don't ahve nearly enough nukes (yet) to blow us all to hell.

Four: If there is another Cold War, China would probably win. The US isn't as powerful as it used to be, and the political climate has changed drastically from the 1950s-1980s.

[Gloriano]

One: China has, and has always had, close ties with North Korea. Witness the first Korean war.

But Usa is important to Chinese economy so if USa would attack NK they would not go help NK (because China is still building their military so that they can counter USA in future)

but if Usa uses Nuclear weaponry then China would aid NK

[Flaser]

I don't think anyone has hit the nail of the isse so far:

It's an insurance. From now on NK can't be "Dealt With" as a 3rd world/minor nation its status is similar to Pakistan's/India's.
From now on, no direct millitary action can be taken to unite Korea, since the Northerners can hit the button anytime.

With the US it's not a question of who wins - that's NEVER the issue with nuclear war.

It's the very prospect that attacking NK will have severe repercussions - namely several million dead US citizens. There's no useful anit-ICBM system in service, and the US simply can't risk a nuclear attack on one its cities - doing so will be political and literal suicide for any politician.

[vyper]

[q]All the other western countries will be pissing their pants, and rush to America screaming "You were right! You were right! We're so sorry for your loss! Let us help you get them!". Why? Because they'll be afraid they'll be next.[/q]

However much I'd like to think we (UK) wouldn't, I have to conceed you're right there.

[aldo_14]

The risk from NK is not to the Us but really to their allies, like Japan and the South; hostages if you will.  And the US couldn't nuke North Korea in response without causing fallout damage to said allied countries.

[Tiara]

JUST IN! THE NETHERLANDS HAS JUST AQUIRED WEAPONS GRADE NAQUADA AND IS GOING TO ENFORE WORLD-WIDE LEGALIZATION OF CANNABIS, PROSTITUTION, ABORTION AND EUTHANESIA OR ASS-RAPE THE ENTIRE WORLD!







...










Seriously, this news is so 1996.

[vyper]

The ass-raping part?

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by vyper
The ass-raping part?

Enough with the ass-raping, already!

[vyper]

https://freeinternetpress.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2932

[q]Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld is due in the French city of Nice for meetings on Wednesday and Thursday with his NATO counterparts. He is expected to urge other NATO countries to contribute more to the military effort in Iraq.


The transatlantic military alliance was severely strained by the American-led invasion of Iraq. Some NATO countries, notably France and Germany, said they would have nothing to do with operations in Iraq.[/q]

He's lucky the UK are still there.  Then again... we have to forsake the will of our own people to help the Iraqi's supposedly have a chance to express theirs.

[Gank]

Janos is on the ball, North Korea is probably in more danger of a Chinese invasion these days than a US one.

[Rictor]

Eh. They managed to survive this long, I don't see them going anywhere unless the US, China and Russia are all onboard, and the chances of that are, well, slim.

[MatthewPapa]

If they nuke the USA (or anyone else for that matter), the USA we will send them back to the stone age with the retaliatory strike.

[Taristin]

Originally posted by Gank
Janos is on the ball, North Korea is probably in more danger of a Chinese invasion these days than a US one.

You're saying all of this "We Must protect ourselves from the US threat" is really "We must make China think we're tough, by barking at the US, so that China doesn't try to take us over"?

[Rictor]

MP, North Korea doesn't have missles anywhere *near* the range required to hit US cities. The problem isn't only the actualy warheads, the main difficulty is delivery systems. As for hitting the South, well they already have enough long-range artillery aimed at Soeul and the DMZ to do major damage, so nuclear weapons would be largely redundant in that respect.

And even if they had ICBMs, please stop assuming that they're crazy enough to actually try anything. These things only happen in Tom Clancy novels, not the real world.

[vyper]

Indeed, they want Nukes for the same reason you do - as a deterrent to stop anyone from even thinking about touching them.

Edit: Erm, apparently I thought they "wank Nukes"

[Knight Templar]

Originally posted by Rictor
And even if they had ICBMs, please stop assuming that they're crazy enough to actually try anything. These things only happen in Tom Clancy novels, not the real world.

Don't forget Oliver North. They happen in his too.

[icespeed]

but if some author can think of things like that happening, who's to say some random paranoid minister for defence or equivalent won't?

the usa would have to be really really stupid though, if it manages to force nk into nuking something. nukes are always the last resort of any desperate plan.

[vyper]

The greatest irony is if the US stopped giving the NK people a  common enemy by just ignoring them, the regime would fall apart a lot quicker.

[deep_eyes]

Originally posted by Raa


You're saying all of this "We Must protect ourselves from the US threat" is really "We must make China think we're tough, by barking at the US, so that China doesn't try to take us over"?

FUNNIEST thing i heared all fuggin day!