[Dark_4ce]

All people write something because of an agenda. No person can write something purely out of logic, as in without their own oppinion. Everything that humans ever wrote is biased. Thats why sadly, history can never be logically explained away, because its all about recording illogical people.

I guess if we boil it all down to the bare root, I can stop for the night by saying, "Truth is in the eye of the beholder". That in the end, its all up to ourselves to make our own minds up about what happens around us.

[Gank]

Funny, I never even said I agreed with what the man was saying, Let alone said it changed my mind completely.  

Originally posted by IceFire
I read the article...most of the way down anyways.  Still I got bored and annoyed.  

I read what you said...most of the way down anyways.  Still I got bored and annoyed.

Anyways you'll have noticed the video was from 1992, in 1997 one robert newman of the jewish defence league put this about;

"He has managed to stir the gullible masses with hatred, lies and deception. Just like a low-lying snake that slithers from dark place to dark place, he spreads his venom to innocent victims.

This is David Cole, who takes pride in his demonic occupation: Holocaust denier of the Six Million Jews.

Cole is a young Jewish man with an evil plan: To alter history and to deny documented facts. A revolting and horrible monster is this so-called Jew.

He rubs shoulders with the neo-nazi criminals who do their evil deeds for Adolf Hitler and who, to this day, continue to spread anti-Semitism through the guise of Holocaust revisionist denial.

What is a David Cole? Is it a sickness? Is it a mental disease? Is Cole merely a human parasite who clings to his ardent Nazi supporters and friends who back his ideas whole-heartedly? After all, this Cole mania that the media have played on, don't you think it's time that we flush this rotten, sick individual down the toilet, where the rest of the waste lies? One less David Cole in the world will certainly not end Jew-hatred, but it will have removed a dangerous parasitic, disease-ridden bacteria from infecting society.

David Cole laughs in the face of his own people. He takes pride in seeing Jewish Holocaust survivors suffer. He laughs and snickers when someone mentions the words Auschwitz, gas chambers and crematoriums.

Cole's denial is really a denial toward his own people. He hates the very fact that he was born into this world a Jew. But more than anything else, his denial is an enormous crime against humanity.

This despicable low-life beast is worse than the Julius Streichers and Joseph Goebbels. He is more evil than they were - because he is a Jew! This pathetic excuse for a human being is a neo-Nazi traitorous sell-out to his own Jewish people.

An evil monster like this does not deserve to live on this earth. All the news stories about his life only encourage Cole to feed his sick ego even more, bringing attention to his depraved lifestyle. Cole is an abominable psychopath who must be stopped.

The word revisionist is a direct insult to the Jewish community, to Holocaust survivors and to the memory of the millions murdered. It is especially insulting to us Jews who are out to crush these vicious Holocaust-denying Nazis.

Just as we must get rid of this monster, Cole, we must also get rid of the word "revisionism" from our vocabulary. This awful word and Cole, too, must be eliminated altogether. There is no argument. There needs to be no more debates, only the elimination of the Holocaust deniers.

Cole is a sickness, a horrible aberration that is spreading like a cancerous sore. David Cole is being used by and manipulated by the neo-Nazis to further promote their agendas of hate.

He is a Jewish puppet for the Ernst Zundels, Bradley Smiths, Willis Cartos and all the white supremacist, Nazi-loving, murderous gangster thugs. They would love to see all the Jews of the world gassed and incinerated again in the burning furnaces of Treblinka, leaving smoldering ashes in its wake.

This world would be a happier place, indeed, when all the Jew-baiters and Jew-haters have disappeared, especially the most vicious hater of them all, David Cole.

Reward for Information

JDL wants to know the location of Holocaust denier David Cole, pictured above. Anyone giving us his correct address will receive a monetary reward. Contact us through e-mail immediately if you have information leading to the current location of David Cole.

Or contact us at:
JDL
PO Box 480370
Los Angeles, Ca. 90048
(818)980-8535

NEVER AGAIN!"

In 1998 David Cole issued this statement:

"This statement is given in an attempt to set the record straight about my current views regarding the Holocaust and Holocaust denial. As anyone who follows the subject of the Holocaust denial knows, from 1991 until 1994 I was well known in the movement as a Jewish Holocaust denier (a self-described "revisionist"). For the last three years I have no longer been associated with this movement, having realized that I was wrong and that the path I was taking with my life was self-destructive and hurtful to others. I have spent the last few years in silence on the subject of my time with the denial movement, a silence caused mainly by my shame at what I had done with my life and my desire to distance myself from that life.

However, in that shame-induced silence it has been brought to my attention that I have not gone as far as I should have to make a clear and complete public statement in order to set the record straight as to where I stand.

It is my great hope that this statement accomplishes that task.

I would like to state for the record that there is no question in my mind that during the Holocaust of Europe's Jews during World War II, the Nazis employed gas chambers in an attempt to commit genocide against the Jews. At camps in both Eastern and Western Europe, Jews were murdered in gas chambers which employed such poison gases as Zyklon B and carbon monoxide (in the Auschwitz camp, for example, the gas chambers used Zyklon B). The evidence for this is overwhelming and unmistakable.

The Nazis intended to kill all of the Jews of Europe, and the final death toll of this attempted genocide was six million. This atrocity, unique in its scope and breadth, must never be forgotten.

During my four years as a denier, I was wracked with self-hate and loathing, a fact that many of my critics were quick to point out. Indeed, this self hatred was obvious to most, but I was too blind to see it. The hate I had for myself I took out on my people. I was seduced by pseudo historical nonsense and clever-sounding but empty ideas and catch-phrases. When my eyes were finally opened, thanks to several good, kind friends who refused to give up on me even at my worst, I was horrified by what I had done. My instinct was to flee and never look back, but I now understand that I owe it to the people I wronged to make a forceful repudication of my earlier views. I also owe a very large apology, not only to the many people I enraged, and to the family and friends I hurt, but especially to the survivors of the Holocaust, who deserve only our respect and compassion, not re-victimization.

Therefore, to all of the above people, let me offer my most humble and very, very sincere apology. I am sorry for what (I) did, and I am sorry for the hurt I caused.

And just as I must set the record straight concerning my views, it is also incumbent on me to set the record straight regarding the video "documentaries" and media appearances I did from 1991 to 1994. These "documentaries" are merely videotaped garbage filled with self-hatred and pseudo-intellectual nonsense. My "media appearances" were nothing but an embarrassment. My glazed look, specious reasoning, and talking-in-circles during my talk show appearances would have hopefully alerted any astute viewers that this was a man not in touch with reality.

It has been brought to my attention that Bradley Smith is still using one of my videos in advertisements he is running on college campuses. Therefore, I would like to make these additional points: This video is being advertised without my consent, and I denounce this video as being without worth. Bradley Smith is no historian, and denial is no "historical field". Students on college campuses should look elsewhere to find out about the Holocaust. To these students, I would say, look to books like Hilberg's "Destruction of the European Jews", Yahil's "The Holocaust", and Dawidowicz's "War against the Jews" for correct information. If your school library doesn't stock these books, have them order copies. Do not pay any attention to any "David Cole" videos, except to rightly denounce them as frauds.

I am thankful for being given the opportunity to make this statement. This statement is made freely and under no duress, and is quite willingly, even happily given to Mr. Irv Rubin of the Jewish Defence League for the widest possible distribution. This statement is the most current and accurate compilation of my views, and it supersedes an(y) previous writings, videos, or statements. It is my hope that there will be no more confusion as to where I stand. I thank you for letting me set the record straight.

(signed)

David Cole

(notarized)

Guess you can all forget about the video and what it says, hes just another self hating jew.

[Flipside]

Why does the name Salman Rushdie come to mind?

[Dark_4ce]

Originally posted by Gank

Guess you can all forget about the video and what it says,hes just another self hating jew.  

Uuhm, dude.  Some people mind find that resentful.

[vyper]

Why does the expression "gotten to" come to mind.

[Gank]

Well if anyone brings it up I'll just tell them to read his statement and you'll see thats exactly what he calls himself. Btw seems you arent the only one who thinks he should be shot, in good company there mate.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Gank
Guess you can all forget about the video and what it says, hes just another self hating jew.

So one idiot says something bad about him and you decide he must be correct?

Read Aldo's post again. He's put up the facts. Cole has completely failed to put up anything except a his own revisionist explainations.

He's like the moon hoaxers. The arguments sound good when all presented together without the chance for sensible rebuttal but as soon as you look below the surface they fall apart.

[Flipside]

Problem is, the moment a religion starts getting all heated up about it, rather than treating it with the derision they feel it deserves, they actually serve only to focus the attention on the article and, with comments such as above by Robert Newman, serve only to present themselves as bloodthirsty, insecure maniacs.

Had the total response been 'I hope he's feeling better soon', chances are the theory wouldn't be nearly as well known.

Robert Newman is a fool who helped point this article out to people with a response based in fear and hatred. If anything, Jews should be angry at him for giving them such an image.

[Dark_4ce]

Originally posted by Gank
Well if anyone brings it up I'll just tell them to read his statement and you'll see thats exactly what he calls himself. Btw seems you arent the only one who thinks he should be shot, in good company there mate.

*hands up*

I was just giving a friendly piece of advice. In light of recent events, thats all.  

And Flip, you are absolutely correct about Newman. The problem with minorities nowadays is, that it takes just one or two people to label the whole group.

The sad fact about religeon nowadays is that the people in charge are too ready to defend it.

[Corsair]

From here on in I shall avoid this thread as if it were the plague. I wouldn't want to overreact and say something rash.

Just an observation. Maybe it's just me but Gank seems to turn up an awful lot in threads having to do with Israel/the Holocaust/Jews in general.

[Flipside]

Gank likes to discuss touchy subjects

Yeah, if you feel a flame coming on, best to get out

Thing is, I personally believe that if you are truly comfortable with your faith, you could happily live in a world of non-believers, problem is the human equation of 'Not like Us' would always get in the way

All Hail the Great Pineapple! Bow down before it's mighty spiky bits!

[Gank]

Originally posted by karajorma
So one idiot says something bad about him and you decide he must be correct?

Now you're sounding like an idiot Kara. You know what sarcasm is?

Originally posted by karajorma
Read Aldo's post again. He's put up the facts. Cole has completely failed to put up anything except a his own revisionist explainations.

Aldos put up facts, a lot of which have **** all to do with the guys arguement and a few of which are dodgy, and a few of which refute Coles points. You'll also notice he was the only one to even attempt to put up facts, the rest of the thread is all "you cant say this"

Originally posted by karajorma
He's like the moon hoaxers. The arguments sound good when all presented together without the chance for sensible rebuttal but as soon as you look below the surface they fall apart.

Maybe, maybe not, wasnt the point of the thread though. Just for reference though revision of the figures has already brought the number gassed at auschwitz down from 4 to 1 million, this was the number used at most ceremonys on the anniversary. I'm guessing the same "arguements" were thrown at people the first time it was looked at.

Originally posted by Dark_4ce
*hands up*

I was just giving a friendly piece of advice. In light of recent events, thats all.  

And Flip, you are absolutely correct about Newman. The problem with minorities nowadays is, that it takes just one or two people to label the whole group.

Recent events like what? As for Newman, you said the same thing he did in your first post, just less colourfully.

Originally posted by Corsair
Just an observation. Maybe it's just me but Gank seems to turn up an awful lot in threads having to do with Israel/the Holocaust/Jews in general.

Good boy Corsair, I was waiting for somebody to start crying anti-semite. let me just make something clear, I dont give a flying **** about jews. Any more than I do about anyone else. Dont hate you dont love you dont really ****ing care. I care about foreign and current affairs, the sort of stuff that will have an effect on my future. i also come from a country that suffered 800 years of whats going on in palestine at the minute, and my mothers been there and has palestinian friends, so no I dont ****ing like Israel. this thing I just came across and thought there were people on here capable of discussing it rationaly, and I actually thought you were one of those people, but now that I think about it werent you the kid who thought he had a right to take the palestinians homeland from them because some guy rolled a quarter at hime in school?

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Gank
Aldos put up facts, a lot of which have **** all to do with the guys arguement and a few of which are dodgy, and a few of which refute Coles points. You'll also notice he was the only one to even attempt to put up facts, the rest of the thread is all "you cant say this"

I didn't add anything because Aldo's points were enough.

The reason why no one is bothering to put up facts is because not only has the man himself stated that he's wrong but in addition to this any idiot can type Holocaust into Wikipedia or some other similar site and get all the facts they need.

Aldo also covered most of the important facts in his post but let me also point out that that the entire film the guy made was filmed in the reconstructed and renovated Auschwitz I camp.  The Jews were gassed in Auschwitz II. Auschwitz I is responsible for the deths of Polish intellectuals, russians and gay men.

No mention is made of the fact that the gas chambers in Auschwitz I were closed down in 1942 and then converted into air raid shelters.

So if the guy is claiming that 1 million Jews weren't gassed at Auschwitz I then he's bang on. This isn't a shocking revelation.  

Originally posted by Gank
Maybe, maybe not, wasnt the point of the thread though.

Okay. I'll bite. What the f**k was the point of this thread then? You didn't lead with a sensible question about the numbers. You posted a thread which mearly linked to a set of claims so stupid that not even the man who made them would stand by them.  What the f**k did you want the thread to be about then?

[Gank]

Originally posted by karajorma
I didn't add anything because Aldo's points were enough.  

I wasnt refering to you, mostly to all the others though you're slotting into the catagory quite nicely.
 

Originally posted by karajorma
The reason why no one is bothering to put up facts is because not only has the man himself stated that he's wrong but in addition to this any idiot can type Holocaust into Wikipedia or some other similar site and get all the facts they need.  

The man stated he was wrong after a letter was circulated making death threats against him. Do you know what duress means?

Originally posted by karajorma
Aldo also covered most of the important facts in his post but let me also point out that that the entire film the guy made was filmed in the reconstructed and renovated Auschwitz I camp.  The Jews were gassed in Auschwitz II. Auschwitz I is responsible for the deths of Polish intellectuals, russians and gay men.  

So the evidence that Aldo provided saying that they were is wrong then? Well done.
 

Originally posted by karajorma
No mention is made of the fact that the gas chambers in Auschwitz I were closed down in 1942 and then converted into air raid shelters.

Way to prove you havent read the article.

So if the guy is claiming that 1 million Jews weren't gassed at Auschwitz I then he's bang on. This isn't a shocking revelation.

Yet his claims are stupid? Good man. So basically hes right in what he claims but his arguements are wrong because he wouldnt stand by them?

Originally posted by karajorma
Okay. I'll bite. What the f**k was the point of this thread then? You didn't lead with a sensible question about the numbers. You posted a thread which mearly linked to a set of claims so stupid that not even the man who made them would stand by them.  What the f**k did you want the thread to be about then?

The point of this thread is in the thread title. If it went over your head tough ****.

[Corsair]

Originally posted by Gank
Good boy Corsair, I was waiting for somebody to start crying anti-semite. let me just make something clear, I dont give a flying **** about jews. Any more than I do about anyone else. Dont hate you dont love you dont really ****ing care. I care about foreign and current affairs, the sort of stuff that will have an effect on my future. i also come from a country that suffered 800 years of whats going on in palestine at the minute, and my mothers been there and has palestinian friends, so no I dont ****ing like Israel. this thing I just came across and thought there were people on here capable of discussing it rationaly, and I actually thought you were one of those people, but now that I think about it werent you the kid who thought he had a right to take the palestinians homeland from them because some guy rolled a quarter at hime in school?

Gank, buddy, calm down a minute. All I was observing was that you post an awful lot about this. Look, if you don't care about Jews one way or another, that's fine. Even if you do dislike them as a group for whatever reason, you're entitled to your opinion and you're entitled to express your opinion. As far as your dislike for Israel goes, you're perfectly entitled to feel that way and I will SYMPATHIZE with you on certain points. We've had a thousand discussions on this board before about Israel/Palestine/the Intifada and I know what you believe on the matter. I'm fairly torn by the conflict, having friends on BOTH sides. So I sympathize with both.

On Sunday, a friend of mine who lives here in town was doing a fundraiser for an organization we work for. When I got there, he said, "There's somebody here who's really excited to see you." I figured it was a friend from one of the nearby unis who I hadn't seen in a while but instead, it was a Palestinian friend who lives in the Old City part of Jerusalem. I was so happy to see him... I gave him a huge hug after practically jumping across the room. Note, this kid is no moderate by any means. Does he want peace? Yes. However, I've heard things come out of his mouth that have absolutely shocked me... but then I think about why's he's saying it and where he's coming from and I understand his point of view. He has every reason to be mad at Israel and hate Israel - they're screwing up his life. It's going to be impossible for him to go to university in Ramallah, where he wants to go, because the IDF has set up four checkpoints between his house and the university. This is just one person, one story.

On the other hand, I know Israeli kids who are 17 now and are taking their first round of tests before entering the IDF. As one, they're very excited to join the army and have the chance to defend their country. Almost all of them know people who have died in suicide bombings or were killed in the wars before the First Intifada.

There are two sides to every conflict. I'm on both sides of this one.

As far as my comment a few months ago about the quarter incident, yeah, that was me. I tried searching for the original post but I couldn't find it so I don't remember exactly what I said. However, I'll try to remember what it was. The incident happened when I was giving my speech for Student Government, some kid rolled a quarter out to me while I was speaking in front of the whole class. If that wasn't a statement about Jews, I'm not sure what is. Anyway, I believe the point that I had tried to make was that yes, I want there to be Jewish homeland for me to be able to turn to if I ever need it. I never said that it justified taking the Palestinian homeland or what is going on right now in Israel/Palestine. Look, I'd be happy with an Israel in Uganda, although then there would be displaced Ugandans, I suppose, which wouldn't be good either. The current conflict is not just, I think most of us will agree to that.

The Palestinian kid who I mentioned earlier only lives in the Old City part of Jerusalem lives in what is now a very religious, Jewish neighborhood. He told me that before 1948, it was entirely Arab but during the War of Independence (or Al-Naqba if you prefer to call it that), all his neighbors fled. They weren't driven out by the IDF but were told to leave by invading Arab armies who promised that Israel would be destroyed within a few weeks and that they would soon be able to return to their homes. When Israel wound up victorious, they chose not to return. My friend's grandfather decided not to leave and instead stay and protect his house and his young son, my friend's father. So they kept their house but lost their neighbors. This is his story, not mine, and I've attempted to retell it as accurately as possible.

The Holocaust is a touchy point with Jewish people. When you start saying things aren't true about what people claim concerning it, it tends to get Jewish people slightly angry. It leads to a lot of overreaction. So I did not mean to imply that you were being anti-Semetic.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Gank
The point of this thread is in the thread title. If it went over your head tough ****.

I'm not even bothering to discuss the rest until you explain what the f**k you're trying to achieve/discuss with this topic cause you've failed to make it clear in any way. All you've done is present a badly written, overlong article about someone who went to Auschwitz asked some questions of the people on site and then acted as if the fact that the tour guide didn't know everything is proof of some theory of his.

I managed to get down to the conversation with the tour guide before I got bored of his poorly written drivel. Life's to short to read that kind of **** without any idea of what is to be gained from reading it.

[vyper]

Can we just say lots of folk died and leave it at that maybe?

[ShadowWolf_IH]

the thing i don't understand is how any of these threads have any bearing on HLP.  I thought the motto was "bringing modders together"  lately it seems to be "bringing politards together to yell about everything political".

as far as i am concerned if you want to argue politics go find a forum that is about politics, but quit doing your damnedest to keep HLP fighting amongst ourselves.  That's all that these threads serve to do.  If i am pissing you off, i don't much care.  The fact is that this is a forum for modding, and you are constantly bringing bullsh1t into this forum that is fully designed to create arguements.  Create Freespace, or do those of us who would prefer to work to work on Freespace a HUGE favor and find a forum built for what you want to do.  This is for all of you who constantly want to argue politics.   This is a Forum built for Modding, not for Politics.  I'll even research and find you the Forums if you are willing to take your bullsh1t there.  It's ****ing ridiculous how many of you have decided that forum built around a game that we all love is the place to have your political arguements.  For ****'s sake get over yourselves.  This kind of idiocy is one reason that some of us are no longer very active.  

For the admins:
This kind of bull**** is the reason that of senior members are getting sick of HLP.  

For the members who don't want to constantly be at war:  
Stop letting these idiots bait you.  


Yeah i am *****ing at all of you for losing sight of what we originally came here to do, this is game forum, treat it as such or get the **** out as far as i am concerned.

[Flipside]

Well, whilst I do agree that some of these threads are created simply to generate flames, maybe Shrike should change the wording on the HLP General Forums, currently it reads :-

'The core of the HL forums, home to the latest in news and discussion about anything and everything. Now converted by Shrike to a 24-hour nightclub.'

Which does suggest that arguing politics and religion, as long as it's here and not in the Specific Freespace Forums, is tolerated.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Gank

So the evidence that Aldo provided saying that they were is wrong then? Well done.
 Actually, what I posted was regarding the use of gas chambers, not who was in them.  I did omit the conversion of Crematorium 1 to an air raid shelter (as this was close enough to SS quarters to use that as such, unlike the others) -  but I note that Cole doesn't reference to the infeasibly of the other crematoria being used as such.  In fact, I'm not sure he mentions them atall.

So my evidence isn't wrong, it's misinterpreted.  I never realised that he never checked the other gas chambers atall, only the one which had been provatively changed.  His other statement on it - the only one - regards them as not being hidden from the inmates in Birkenau.  Except Birkenau was built for extermination, not labour IIRC, so it didn't matter if the inmates knew as much.

Also, the existence of the gas holes in (IIRC) Crematorium 2 has been confirmed in a study on the remains.  Probably worth noting he's mentioned nothing of the documentary orders for the likes of gas-proofing.  

Also, his statements on Zyklon B levels in crematoria one have been disproven (linked previously) with explicit comparison to delousing areas.

Really,if I can find disproving evidence in a 5 minute internet search, then it doesn't strike me as an honest appraisal - neither does it strike me as shocking that a tour guide might have a different understanding to a supervisor (after all, it would be likely the guid was hired for temp work there and had less overall knowledge).  I think in essence the article is seeking to ignore or dismiss contradictory evidence without mentioning what that evidence actually is.

What I wonder is, how did you end up on that website?