[LeGuille]

Originally posted by Zarax
Kaz, you don't realize how much more effective you would be if you adopted a slightly less imposing approach.
People on the defensive are much less keen to listen you as they are too busy into finding a defensive mean depending on the nature of the subject.
I guess you would greatly benefit to trying teach some class somewhere, possibly with a non 100% receptive audience.

Also, when expecting people declare you're right it's like expecting them to drop much of their ego and pride, something very unlikely for most human beings

I'm too low-esteemed to have an ego or any pride. I stand back and take the approach that is best for me, not any particular party or political orginization. I was wrong in my judgement, but not my independant, truth-seeking political belief.  So, no one really lost. I actually gained something: knowledge. And that's always a good thing.

[Ford Prefect]

Ummmm... Dont think so. Buddhisim, for example, does not believe in a god. (Buddha is considered a prophet), so they are atheists, but Buddhisim is a religion.

Not quite. Buddhism makes no specific reference to a god, but it is quite possible to be a Buddhist and believe in god. Buddhism teaches one to refrain from resisting the natural ebb and flow of the universe and strive to see its total unity, thus achieving enlightenment. It does not attempt to predict what one will find after achieving enlightenment. It might be a kind of Emersonian clarity, it might be god, or the two might be one in the same.

Atheism is the positive assertion that there is no god. By the strict definition of the term, an atheist can still be a Buddhist, but I think most people who call themselves atheists also reject other spiritual concepts along with god.

[KappaWing]

True. I consider atheism one of the three categories that all religion must fall into (Monotheism, Polytheism, and Atheism) Since Buddhists make no reference to a god, I classified them as atheists, but since they don't predict what you may encounter at enlightenment, I suppose they could be all three.

[Kazan]

kappawing your classifications are flawed

atheists have _no_ religious/spiritual/superstitous beliefs (therefore some individuals who call themselves atheists are not)


montheism, polytheism, spritualism, agnosticism, atheism would be a slightly more complete set - but by no means all encompassing


sry kappa but professionals with doctorates in religious studies > you

[KappaWing]

professionals with doctorates in religious studies

You are one?
Well then I guess there's no point arguing!

[Kazan]

no, but i know a couple

and i can read books from them too

[Ford Prefect]

You are one?
Well then I guess there's no point arguing!

[Ace]

Originally posted by Kazan
no, but i know a couple

At least our Derek is more honest than the other Derek.

His reply would have been:

_of_ COURSE I have a PHD in religion! It is _necessary_ for any game designer you _primitive_ mundane!

[Kazan]

hehe


yes - i am not a phd in anything - but i live in a university town, it's not difficult to know (And discuss things) with PhD's and PhD candidates

[edit]

BLEH time warp

[Tiara]

Originally posted by Kazan
kappawing your classifications are flawed

atheists have _no_ religious/spiritual/superstitous beliefs (therefore some individuals who call themselves atheists are not)


montheism, polytheism, spritualism, agnosticism, atheism would be a slightly more complete set - but by no means all encompassing


sry kappa but professionals with doctorates in religious studies > you

Technically he is right. Atheism means 'Godless' or 'without God(s)'. And since Buhddism has no God(s) and thus is technically an Atheist belief.

What?

Also, Atheist DO have spiritual beliefs. Spiritual does not just refer to religion or superstition. It also refers to morals, your perception of what is right and what is wrong. You believe that you are control of your own life, and not god or some other higher being. This too is a spiritual belief.

Yes, 'spiritual' is often used in conjunction with religion, but it is much broader then that.

Once again this refers to the real meaning of Atheism. Atheism is a belief without a god. It can be the belief in one self as well.

And if you get right down to it, atheism is a religion on it's own.

re·li·gion   Audio pronunciation of "Religion" ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (r-ljn)
n.

- A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief.
-  A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

These two point adequately describe you, Kazan (from what I've seen anyway).

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Tiara
Once again this refers to the real meaning of Atheism. Atheism is a belief without a god.  

No. Atheism is a LACK of belief. I don't believe that there is no God any more that I believe that I'm sat here typing this.

[Tiara]

Originally posted by karajorma


No. Atheism is a LACK of belief. I don't believe that there is no God any more that I believe that I'm sat here typing this.

Atheism is derived from the greek word 'atheos'.

'a-'; without
'theos'; God

'Without God' or 'Godless'.

The meaning of the word 'atheism' is "the doctrine or belief that there is no God" or "a lack of belief in the existence of God or gods".

Also, you cannot have a lack of belief unless you are braindead. You always have a belief. Even science is a form of belief.

[Rictor]

What about the old man in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy?

[Liberator]

*looks at thread*



All that's old is new again, huh Kaz?

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Tiara

Atheism is derived from the greek word 'atheos'.

'a-'; without
'theos'; God

'Without God' or 'Godless'.

The meaning of the word 'atheism' is "the doctrine or belief that there is no God" or "a lack of belief in the existence of God or gods".

Also, you cannot have a lack of belief unless you are braindead. You always have a belief. Even science is a form of belief.

Wrong yet again. Your own quote states that Atheism can be a lack of belief in something. Why are you then arguing that the definition you picked is wrong?

Theism, broadly defined, is simply the belief in the existence of at least one god. Contrasted with this is atheism: broadly defined, it is the absence of belief in the existence of any gods.

From Here

And science is not a belief either. Science is a method. You can't say that Science is a belief any more than you can say that going to the shops is a belief.

[Tiara]

Ehm, that quote from the article says the exact same thing I say;

Contrasted with this is atheism: broadly defined, it is the absence of belief in the existence of any gods

NOT the absence of belief itself.

And science is not a belief either. Science is a method. You can't say that Science is a belief any more than you can say that going to the shops is a belief.

So, you don't believe science is right? You don't believe science proves stuff?

Christians believe God knows all. Scientists believe that all the answers can be found through science.

Belief is a MUCH broader term that you give it credit for. belief isn't 'just' religion. It is everything. Do you believe in yourself? Well, then you have you own belief system that has nothing to do with god or other holy figures.

And your comparison is simply flawed. Comparing science to shopping is like comparing a star to spacedust.

[Kazan]

Originally posted by Tiara

Also, you cannot have a lack of belief unless you are braindead. You always have a belief. Even science is a form of belief.

this is where you're wrong

I don't believe in pixies/faeries - therefore i LACK belief in them

!(Tiara > PhD's in Religious Studies)

I'll go with the UNIVERSAL AGREEMENT among the PhDs of: Atheism is not a religion


Go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200


-----------------

Atheism is the condition of being without theistic beliefs,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

[Kazan]

oh - BTW Tiara

stop abusing the multiple definitions of the word "Belief"


there is "Belief" without evidence: ie faith (see: religion)
there is "Belief" WITH evidence: ie science (see: using your ****ing brain)


im so tired of you abusing the definitions of words to try and miscategorize atheists and agnostics -

[Tiara]

Originally posted by Kazan

this is where you're wrong

I don't believe in pixies/faeries - therefore i LACK belief in them

So, that makes you an atheist? You are completely missing the point.

!(Tiara > PhD's in Religious Studies)

I'll go with the UNIVERSAL AGREEMENT among the PhDs of: Atheism is not a religion

I NEVER SAID IT WAS A ****ING RELIGION, I SAID IT WAS A BELIEF.[/u]

Why do people always twist my words

Go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200

Ah, yes. The ever so snide comments...

Atheism is the condition of being without theistic beliefs,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

And you 'conveniently' left out the second part of that sentence;

or the disbelief in the existence of deities.

You can be an atheist AND STILL believe in something. hence the word 'or'.

Really, I'd expect better from you Kazan. I don't mind if you want to argue with me but do it in normal manner, without twisting my words and without 'conveniently' leaving out facts.

oh - BTW Tiara

stop abusing the multiple definitions of the word "Belief"


there is "Belief" without evidence: ie faith (see: religion)
there is "Belief" WITH evidence: ie science (see: using your ****ing brain)


im so tired of you abusing the definitions of words to try and miscategorize atheists and agnostics -

Abusing? ROFL! If anything, you're abusing it because you limit it to a single meaning while it in fact is not as limited.

Get your head out of the sand and smell the cow**** that's sitting on top of it. Not everything is as simple as 1 2 3. You seem to think that for everything there is an absolute answer. Well, guess what, there isn't.

Just because you are so damned limited that you can't see beyond your own nose, isn't my fault.

[Kazan]

*rolleyes*