Author Topic: Terri Schiavo  (Read 13846 times)

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Offline Liberator

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 210
Quote
Originally posted by Ghost
Is that quote on record, or is it hearsay?

Now, if her husband could be proven guilty of trying to get something out of having her dead, I'd say shoot him and try and bring her out of it. As it stands, let her die... it's the humane thing to do.


You should recognize it, you said it.

Quote
Originally posted by Ghost
Flip: she's brain damaged. She has no idea what's going on,  and can't really express true emotion, only childlike wonder. She is as bad as mentally retarded children. I say let her die; it's the kind thing to do. Would you want to stay in such a state for a normal human life span? No, I don't think you would, and neither would I. One could argue that it's a form of cruel and unusual punishment to keep her alive like this.


You don't want to live like that?  Put it in writing so this BS doesn't go on.  Also, make sure your family is aware of you're feelings.

On the subject of her husband.  I heard that he is in position to get something on the order of 20 million dollars upon her death.  But that aside, he seems a little too eager for her to die.  He says he's doing this because he loves her, however, if she is a bean sprout, he loses nothing by just walking away.
So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

There are only 10 types of people in the world , those that understand binary and those that don't.

 

Offline Liberator

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Quote
Originally posted by Stealth
... but she's a vegetable apparently...


I am not convinced of that when a Nobel nominee says that he believes that she can recover some functionality with the therapy she was supposed to have gotten.

double post...sorry:(
So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

There are only 10 types of people in the world , those that understand binary and those that don't.

 

Offline Grug

  • 211
  • From the ashes...
*peers in thread*
:nervous:
*runs away screaming*

 
Let's look at this from the way it happened.

  • Terry goes into vegitative state.
  • Husband Michael spends 7 years getting the malpractice money.
  • After winning the court battles and getting the money, Michael claims his wife told him she wanted to die.
  • Michael has offered no form of help to move his wife along in the process of getting better.
  • Neurologists have said that she can be rehabilitated, and this is not a permanent state.
  • Michael Schiavo has been living with another woman and having her kids while still refusing to divorce Terry.
  • Only way for Michael to get the insurance money he earned from court battles is for her to die.


If he wanted to "move on" then he would simply divorce her and that would be that. However, he would much rather have her die, and how come a woman who can't speak told him specificially she wanted to be unplugged? It's simply his word against everyone else's.

The guy is a snake, a bastard who has been having sex with someone else whilst still married to someone else. Why wont he divorce her? He wants that insurance money, and he can't get it until she dies. Period.

People in worse condition have come out of this state without rehabilitation. If he would rather "move on", then divorce her, let her parents take care of their child, and just ****ing leave. I don't get what's so hard.

She's on a feeding tube, not freakin' life support.

  

Offline Anaz

  • 210
Quote
Originally posted by Deepblue
Any life is worth living, death is not a viable option unless it is brought on by natural causes. It stuns me that they will not allow Terri's parents to put a freakin' ice cube in her mouth to help her.


Guess what? About 100 years ago, this would already be a "natural cause".
Arrr. I'm a pirate.

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You WILL go to warpstorm...

 
Well it's not 100 years ago, it's happening right now.

 

Offline Ghost

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Liberator: I told my dad, if I ever go into anything like this to tell them to kill me. Living like that would be ****ing pointless.

20 million dollars, though.. Jesus. In that case, I want her to come out... (I'd rather she come out of it anyway, but there's no hope of it).. Can we make him the braindead one?
Wh00t!? Vinyl? Is it like an I-pod 2 or something?

[/sarcasm]

-KappaWing

The Greatest Game in Existance

 

Offline Anaz

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Quote
Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
Well it's not 100 years ago, it's happening right now.


Yes, but we're using moral standards that are quite possibly over 100 years old to evaluate the right and wrong of this case.
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You WILL go to warpstorm...

 
Quote
Originally posted by Anaz


Yes, but we're using moral standards that are quite possibly over 100 years old to evaluate the right and wrong of this case.


Moral standards and medical conditions are two completely opposite things.

 

Offline Ford Prefect

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Ehhhhhh... no. The opposite of moral standards would be relativism, not... medical conditions.
"Mais est-ce qu'il ne vient jamais à l'idée de ces gens-là que je peux être 'artificiel' par nature?"  --Maurice Ravel

 

Offline Anaz

  • 210
Quote
Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.


Moral standards and medical conditions are two completely opposite things.



if you're not using your moral standards to evaluate whether or not she should have her feeding tube removed, what are you using :wtf:
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You WILL go to warpstorm...

 

Offline Thrilla

  • 27
I say remove his kitchen from his house and let hime starve!
94th Combat Support Hospital, 807th Medical Brigade

 

Offline Stealth

  • Braiiins...
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see i'm going to go with what's been said on public television, as opposed to what's being said on now hundreds of websites.  according to television (and MSN.com.  msn counts too): her brain tissue has dissolved, and therefore there's no way for her to ever recover and live a (relatively) normal life.  so assuming she'll be like that forever, do you think it would be humane to put her out of her misery? (note: misery.  just because she's not in excruciating pain all day does not mean she's living a happy life.  i'm sure (assuming now that she IS conscious of everything going on) waking up every day, and not being able to coordinate movements, or talk, or eat, etc. would get old after a few... minutes.  let alone a whole life...)

also, i should mention that she should've written a life will or DBA.  that's her own fault, because this whole issue wouldn't exist if she had, but guess what, she didn't, and no one's perfect, so...

i need to point out, though, that i don't agree at all with the way they've chosen to execute her.  there's a difference "taking someone off the machine" that's, for instance, keeping their heart pumping, or something.  but to take someone off a machine that's feeding someone, and just let them die over the course of a few weeks:  that's wrong.  that's what's morally wrong.

 

Offline Anaz

  • 210
Stealth: As far as I know, euthanasia is illegal. They don't have another way to put her out of her misery
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You WILL go to warpstorm...

 

Offline Rictor

  • Murdered by Brazilian Psychopath
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Quote
Originally posted by Anaz
Stealth: As far as I know, euthanasia is illegal. They don't have another way to put her out of her misery


Exactly the problem. If euthanasia was legal like it should be, she wouldn't need to suffer like this.

 

Offline Liberator

  • Poe's Law In Action
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Yeah, but it would establish the precedent.

Who decides how much suffering is too much?  The doctor?  The government?  If so, where do they derive that kind of authority?

What if you are in a wreck and are diagnosed with a spinal injury that leaves you paralyzed from the neck down, unable to speak.  At that point, according to you're standard we should whack you, but what if a treatment was developed days after you're executed(and let's not mince words, it is execution) that would have restored you to something resembling full function?
So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

There are only 10 types of people in the world , those that understand binary and those that don't.

 
I find it quite ironic, that the United States of America, which ranks as number 1 for wasting food (nearly fifty percent), is the place where this human being will be executed by starvation.

 

Offline Rictor

  • Murdered by Brazilian Psychopath
  • 29
Quote
Originally posted by Liberator
Yeah, but it would establish the precedent.

Who decides how much suffering is too much?  The doctor?  The government?  If so, where do they derive that kind of authority?

What if you are in a wreck and are diagnosed with a spinal injury that leaves you paralyzed from the neck down, unable to speak.  At that point, according to you're standard we should whack you, but what if a treatment was developed days after you're executed(and let's not mince words, it is execution) that would have restored you to something resembling full function?


Well, you have to take it on a case by case basis. Saying that there should be no euthanasia under any circumstances is a stupid as saying that you should always euthanize.

Who would decide? Well, assuming that you have left no instructions, a doctor (or panel of doctors, just to be sure) would give their professional opintion as to the chances for recovery, and then it would pretty much fall to the family. This is assuming you are unable to communicate, obviously if you are conscious and aware, you can make that decision youself...

 

Offline aldo_14

  • Gunnery Control
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Quote
Originally posted by Liberator
Yeah, but it would establish the precedent.

Who decides how much suffering is too much?  The doctor?  The government?  If so, where do they derive that kind of authority?

What if you are in a wreck and are diagnosed with a spinal injury that leaves you paralyzed from the neck down, unable to speak.  At that point, according to you're standard we should whack you, but what if a treatment was developed days after you're executed(and let's not mince words, it is execution) that would have restored you to something resembling full function?


The person decides.  If the person is left in a completely incommunicado state, brain damaged to the extent they cannot communicate or even form rational thought (note; there's at least one instance where a paraplegic has learned to communicate through blinking, and even wrote a book as a result), then the responsibility passes to the next of kin, whose motives are examined by the courts to ensure they are neutral.

In both cases, medical evidence is required in order prove that further recovery is impossible. I believe Switzerland and Holland in particular already have laws to this effect.

 If medical technology is developed days after the euthenisation, then it's tough cheese

(NB: of course, medical technology and treatment is developed, documented and tested over long periods of time; any competent doctor would be able to point out the potential for treatment during an evaluation; as such it is vastly unlikely a wonder-cure would unexpectedly emerge 'days', or weeks, or even months after the person dies in a useable state)

(more general reply; not specifically @Lib)

On this specific case... firstly, it's completely wrong to pass a law for a single specific case and person (and the law apparently specifically refers to the Schiavos) - it smacks of dictatorial rule, and is simply morally wrong, regardless of what that law is.

Reading a little about it, Terry Schiavo has been described as in a Persistent Vegatative State for now 15 years, where involuntary stimuli such as screaming, smiling, grunting, etc can occur; it'd be very easy for hopeful parents to interpret this as voluntary response.  Either way, it's symptomatic of PVs, so the issue is the medical diagnosis.

As such, if the doctors diagnose it as unrecoverable PVS, then I think there is a right to withdraw treatment; and I think it's the humane thing to do, rather than let her live in this way.

(note; this is not euthanasia in legal terms, because the patient cannot independently survive without treatment.  So it's actually a different issue than letting a cancer sufferer OD, for example)

There is an issue of the humanity of allowing her to starve to death over a 2 wekks period... however, medical diagnosis apparently indicates that a large portion of her cerebral cortex has turned into fluid - in effect, she cannot actually feel hunger or thirst.

Incidentally, PVS is diagnosed as a case of serious brain damage with "wakefulness without awareness"; it was coined in 1972 partly because of medicines increased ability to keep the body alive.  There are, IIRC, studies in the use of MRI that help determine whether PVS can be recovered from.

(another note; there's a difference in PVS compared to brain damage; PVS sufferers are never 'awake' and able to perceive the world around them - brain damaged or retarded individuals can, but in a 'damaged' manner)

Finally, Michael Schiavo won his malpractice suit in 1992 (according to the beeb); that's over 12 years ago.  He's also refused $1m dollars (my emphasis) offered by a Californian businessman to keep his wife alive (and presumably sign away his guardianship rights).  Perhaps it would be fair to mention that whilst you're busy character assassinating him?

 

Offline Cancer

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Sandadandadan.......
[size=10]I AM A BADASS MAN!!!!

Loser bastards[/size]